1 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE 15TH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT, IN AND FOR 2 PALM BEACH COUNTY, FLORIDA 3 GENERAL JURISDICTION DIVISION

Transcription

1 1 1 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE 15TH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT, IN AND FOR 2 PALM BEACH COUNTY, FLORIDA 3 GENERAL JURISDICTION DIVISION 4 CASE NO: CA XXXXMB Division: AW 5 HSBC BANK, USA, AS TRUSTEE FOR MLC , 7 Plaintiff, v. 8 CHARLES S. HALL, THE UNKNOWN SPOUSE 9 OF CHARLES S. HALL; ANY AND ALL UNKNOWN PARTIES CLAIMING BY, THROUGH, 10 UNDER, AND AGAINST THE HEREIN NAMED INDIVIDUAL DEFENDANT(S) WHO ARE NOT 11 KNOWN TO BE DEAD OR ALIVE, WHETHER SAID UNKNOWN PARTIES MAY CLAIM AN 12 INTEREST AS SPOUSES, HEIRS, DEVISEES, GRANTEES, OR OTHER CLAIMANTS; WATER 13 GLADES 200 CONDOMINIUM ASSOCIATION, INC.,; TENANT #1, TENANT #2, TENANT 14 #3, AND TENANT #4, the names being fictitious to account for parties in 15 possession, 16 Defendants. / DEPOSITION 19 OF 20 RONALD CASPERITE Friday, October 18, :30 a.m. - 1:30 p.m Palm Beach Lakes Boulevard, Suite 500 West Palm Beach, Florida 25

2 2 1 2 APPEARANCES: 3 On behalf of the Plaintiff: 4 RONALD R. WOLFE & ASSOCIATES, P.L Memorial Highway, Suite 200 Tampa, Florida (813) BY: Rhonda Kitchman Lewis, Esquire 7 8 On behalf of the Defendant: 9 THE CULLEN LAW FIRM, P.A Palm Beach Lakes Boulevard Suite West Palm Beach, Florida (561) BY: Mark A. Cullen, Esquire ALSO PRESENT: 15 Charles S. Hall, Defendant. 16 Beth Hall 17 Cathy Cullen The Cullen Law Firm, P.A

3 3 1 2 I N D E X 3 PAGE 4 APPEARANCES INDEX TESTIMONY OF RONALD CASPERITE: Direct Examination by Mr. Cullen WITNESS NOTARY ACKNOWLEDGMENT ERRATA SHEET NOTIFICATION LETTER TO WITNESS CERTIFICATE OF OATH REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE E X H I B I T S Exhibit No Exhibit No. 2 (Intentionally skipped) Exhibit No Exhibit No Exhibit No Exhibit No Exhibit No

4 4 1 P R O C E E D I N G S Deposition taken before Rhonda L. Buxbaum, 4 Certified Court Reporter, and Notary Public, in and for 5 the State of Florida at Large, in the above cause: THEREUPON, 8 RONALD CASPERITE, 9 being duly sworn to tell the truth, the whole truth, and 10 nothing but the truth, as hereinafter certified, 11 testified on his oath as follows: 12 THE WITNESS: I do. 13 _ 14 [Start time: 10:34 a.m.] DIRECT EXAMINATION 17 Q Sir, will you state your name, and spell your 18 name for the record, please? 19 A Ronald Casperite. C-A-S- P as in Paul E-R-I-T-E. 21 Q My name is Mark Cullen. I'm an attorney 22 representing Charles S. Hall. 23 Have you ever had your deposition taken before 24 today? 25 A A few times.

5 5 1 Q Okay. I'm sure you have, but let me go ahead 2 and explain the rules briefly. If you don't understand 3 something I've said, I will be glad to rephrase it for 4 you; just let me know. 5 You can't take any breaks except, unless 6 there's a question pending. 7 A Okay. 8 Q So if you need a break, it's alright; fine; 9 we'll get back to you. 10 During the time that I ask you questions, I'm 11 asking you for complete answers to the questions; not a 12 partial truth, but the whole truth. And if at any time 13 during the deposition you believe that there is 14 additional information you should have provided with 15 regard to a question that was asked previously, we'll be 16 glad to go back and get the full answer, okay? 17 A Okay. 18 Q What is your home address? 19 MS. LEWIS: Objection. He's here in his 20 capacity as a corporate representative, and he is 21 appearing for the trial on Monday. No need to send 22 a Subpoena. We will object to him providing his 23 personal information. 24 BY MR. CULLEN: 25 Q Would you tell us what your home address is,

6 6 1 please? 2 MS. LEWIS: I will instruct you not to answer, 3 unless he wants to disclose his home address. 4 MR. CULLEN: And you know he doesn't want to. 5 MS. LEWIS: Unless he wants to, I said. 6 THE WITNESS: I don't understand the purpose 7 of why you need to know where I live. 8 MR. CULLEN: Because I am allowed to inquire 9 about the witness and a witness's reliability, and 10 we're allowed to do background checks. 11 BY MR. CULLEN: 12 Q So, where do you live? 13 A 14 Q Okay, that wasn't hard. 15 A But at the same time, I don't know if somebody 16 is going to come and stalk me or something, at the same 17 time. I don't know you or anybody from your Firm or 18 anybody related to this case. So for my own personal 19 safety, as well as my children, I do have that concern. 20 Q Do you live there with your children? 21 A Partially. 22 Q Okay. Do you live there with your wife? 23 A I'm not married. 24 Q Okay. How many children do you have? 25 A Two.

7 7 1 Q Okay. Well, I'll pledge that I won't stalk 2 you. 3 A Okay. 4 Q How long have you lived there? 5 A Year and a half. 6 Q Have you ever been arrested? 7 A No. 8 Q Have you ever been taken to jail? 9 A No. 10 Q Have you ever been charged with any crime? 11 A No. 12 Q Have you ever been involved in any litigation, 13 other than litigation involving PHH? 14 A Not that I'm aware of. 15 Q Have you ever been employed by anybody other 16 than PHH? 17 A I have. 18 Q When did you first start working for PHH? 19 A February Q And before that, where did you work? 21 A I worked for a small federal savings bank in 22 New Jersey. 23 Q What was the name of that bank? 24 A Delanco -- D-E-L-A-N-C-O Federal Savings Bank 25 in Delanco, New Jersey.

8 8 1 Q And what was your capacity at that bank? 2 A I ran the residential lending department. 3 Q Where is it located? 4 A Delanco, New Jersey. 5 Q How long did you run it -- that department? 6 A I worked there for 20 years. 7 Q For how long did you run the department with 8 regard to residential? 9 A Ten years. 10 Q And before that, what did you do at the bank? 11 A I started out as a teller and moved my way up 12 through head teller; got into lending once I got out of 13 college and Q Where did you go to college? 15 A York College of Pennsylvania as my undergrad; 16 Widener University as my MBA. 17 Q Is Widener the school that's right next to the 18 Philadelphia Airport? 19 A It's close to it. 20 Q And you got your MBA when? 21 A '96 roughly. 22 Q How old are you? 23 A Q What is your official job title now? 25 A Complex analyst.

9 9 1 Q How long have you held that job title? 2 A Since I started working there in 3 February Q What is your job description now? 5 A It's hard to say. Right now, I handle 6 scheduling, depositions, trials. I handle litigated 7 matters. I assist in complex foreclosure processes, and 8 I attend depositions and occasional mediation. I do 9 trials. I travel around the country. 10 Q When you say that you do trials, are you 11 saying that you actually participate as a witness at 12 trial or some other function? 13 A As a corporate witness. 14 Q Okay. And when you say that you handle 15 complex litigation or participate in complex litigation, 16 is it always as a witness? 17 A Yes. 18 Q Okay. Like what you're doing today. 19 A Correct. 20 Q Are there some cases which are complex that 21 require the services of the complex analyst, as opposed 22 to some cases which are not complex and that doesn't 23 rise to the level of a complex analyst being needed for 24 the work? 25 A Yes.

10 10 1 Q Okay. Is there some -- not lesser, but a 2 different category of analyst other than complex analyst 3 at PHH? 4 A I don't know. 5 Q Are you here today as the Corporate 6 Representative of the Plaintiff? 7 A Yes. 8 Q And who is that? 9 A HSBC Bank, NA, as Trustee for MLCC Q And is that the name which is on the caption 11 of the Complaint in this case for the Plaintiff? 12 A Aside from the Scrivener's Error, yes. 13 Q What Scrivener's Error? 14 A There is a "c" that's not on the name, and the 15 NA after your HSBC Bank, USA is missing. 16 Q Who was the Scrivener that made that error? 17 A I can't tell you that. 18 Q When did the Scrivener first make that error? 19 A I can't tell you. 20 Q Okay. Was it at least at the time that this 21 Complaint was filed? 22 A It was probably around the time that it was 23 filed. I can't be certain. 24 Q And you've only been working for PHH since ?

11 11 1 A Correct. 2 Q When? What date? 3 A February. 4 Q February, okay. Was the Scrivener's Error 5 committed sometime before February 2010? 6 A Yes. 7 Q Okay. And how do you know it was a 8 Scrivener's Error? 9 A Because the name is close to the correct 10 entity. 11 Q And other than your review of it now that it 12 was close to the named -- or the name was close to the 13 correct entity, do you have any other reason to believe 14 it was a Scrivener's Error? 15 A No. 16 Q Alright. Is that the position of the 17 Corporation? 18 A Yes. 19 Q Okay. Do you know where HSBC Bank, USA is 20 incorporated? 21 A No. 22 Q Do you know where its headquarters is? 23 A No. 24 Q Did HSBC Bank, USA prepare you for this 25 deposition today?

12 12 1 A No. 2 Q Have you seen the Notice of Deposition in this 3 case? 4 A Yes. 5 Q And did you prepare for all these topics in 6 the Notice of Deposition? 7 A As best I could. 8 Q And what did you do to prepare for those 9 topics? 10 A I reviewed the Answer and the Affirmative 11 Defenses that were filed; the MSJ that was filed. I 12 reviewed Q MSJ meaning Motion for Summary Judgment? 14 A Correct. 15 Q Okay. 16 A I reviewed the Note, breach letters, payment 17 history; some escrow letters that are in dispute. I 18 reviewed the amounts due and owing that were submitted. 19 I reviewed some reinstatement letters that were 20 provided. And I don't know -- there might be other 21 things. 22 Q Okay. I'll ask you about those. 23 Is there a trust by the name of MLC ? 24 A To that specific name, no. 25 Q Okay. And is that the position of HSBC, the

13 13 1 Plaintiff in this case, there is no such trust? 2 A As MLC , yes. 3 Q Okay. Is it the Corporation's position that 4 they are the Trustee of some other trust, other than MLC and I appreciate that you're going slow, too, 6 on this. 7 A HSBC is Trustee to many other pools of loans; 8 other trusts with other names. 9 Q Alright. Is there a trust that is named MLCC ? 11 A There are a couple of different trusts that 12 have the specific lettering of MLCC Q Okay. And how are they differentiated, if at 14 all? 15 A By the name. 16 Q Okay. Is there more to the name than MLCC ? 18 A Yes. 19 Q What is the rest of the name? 20 A HSBC Bank, NA, as Trustee for MLCC There was also another trust that is HSBC Bank, as 22 Trustee, NA, MLMI, which is a mortgage lender's -- I 23 forget what the MLMI stands for specifically. 24 Q Merrill Lynch Mortgage Investors? 25 A Yeah, the one that's quoted in your Answer or

14 14 1 in the Answer that was filed; that one. MLCC Q Okay. Is that the full name of the Trust HSBC 3 -- the one that you said. 4 Well, tell me the full name of the trust which 5 ends with MLCC Strike that question. 6 Is there more than one trust which has the 7 ending as MLCC ? 8 A Yes. 9 Q And do you believe there are at least three? 10 A Two. 11 Q Two. And what are they? What are the full 12 names of those two trusts? 13 A As I answered, HSBC Bank, USA, NA, as Trustee 14 for MLCC That's the first one. 15 Q Okay. And the second? 16 A And there is a second that is HSBC Bank, USA, 17 NA, MLMI; and then MLCC Q Other than the name, is there any difference 19 in those two trusts? 20 A They're separate pools. 21 Q Okay. And are the pools populated by 22 different types of loans? 23 A I can't be specific as to which is in both. 24 We do residential lending. PHH does the residential 25 lending. That's what we service. So I can only

15 15 1 speculate that there is residential loans in the two 2 different pools. 3 Q What is a pool? 4 A It's a group of loans that are put together 5 and then sold on the market -- an open market where you 6 have investors that buy in and out of a particular 7 mortgage backed securities, if you want to call it that. 8 Q And the pool is the corpus of the trust? 9 MS. LEWIS: Objection to form. 10 BY MR. CULLEN: 11 Q You don't know? 12 A I don't know. 13 Q Is the pool composed only of residential 14 mortgages? 15 A I can't be 100 percent sure. 16 Q Okay. Have you ever reviewed any trust 17 document which identifies that HSBC Bank, USA, either NA 18 or without the NA, is the Trustee for a trust with the 19 name MLC at the end? One "c." 20 A Repeat the question. 21 Q Sure. Have you reviewed any trust document 22 which identifies HSBC Bank, USA as a Trustee for a trust 23 with MLC at the end? 24 A No. 25 Q Okay. And have you reviewed any trust

16 16 1 document which identifies HSBC Bank, USA, as the Trustee 2 for MLCC Trust? 3 A I did not look at that specific Pooling and 4 Servicing Agreement. 5 Q What documents have you reviewed in connection 6 with any trust today? Prior to today -- excuse me. 7 MS. LEWIS: Objection as to form. 8 THE WITNESS: I looked at the limited Power of 9 Attorney that PHH has to conduct business on behalf 10 of the particular pools that HSBC is Trustee for, 11 including HSBC Bank, USA, NA, as Trustee for MLCC But I did not review the agreement itself the several hundred pages. 14 BY MR. CULLEN: 15 Q Did you review the Pooling and Service 16 Agreement associated with either of the two Trusts that 17 you've mentioned? 18 A No. 19 Q Did you review any of the schedules associated 20 with either of the two trusts which were mentioned? 21 A No. 22 Q I'd like to show you Exhibit Number MR. CULLEN: They've been pre-marked, Rhonda. 24 COURT REPORTER: I know, thanks. 25 (Exhibit No. 1 was marked for

17 17 1 identification and attached hereto) 2 BY MR. CULLEN: 3 Q Sir -- and I'd be glad to call you Ron if you 4 like, but sir works. 5 A You may. 6 Q Okay, Ron. You can call me Mark if you like. 7 Have you seen this document before today? 8 A I have. 9 Q Alright. Were you aware that, as a corporate 10 representative, that you were to testify about all the 11 issues in the documents, including issues 1 through 21? 12 A Yes. 13 Q And have you, in fact, prepared with regard to 14 answering questions with regard to all of these issues through 21? 16 A As best I could. 17 Q And what limited you in terms of just doing 18 the best you could? 19 A Well, I don't have a list of the questions you 20 were going to ask so that I could be specific and know 21 exactly what it is. So I've reviewed the document 22 itself and interpreted it the way that I felt I needed 23 to prepare, in addition to working with my counsel here 24 in preparation, and felt that we were as prepared as can 25 be, based upon the Notice that we have here.

18 18 1 Q Okay. Well, for example, number 7 says -- and 2 the topic is: "If HSBC ever relinquished actual 3 physical possession of the original Note and/or 4 Mortgage; the date that actual physical possession of 5 the Note and/or Mortgage was relinquished." 6 What preparation did you do to be able to 7 answer questions on that topic? 8 MS. LEWIS: Objection as to form of the 9 question as stated in number THE WITNESS: HSBC has not been the holder of 11 the Note. 12 BY MR. CULLEN: 13 Q Alright. Before you go there, Ron, I was 14 asking you what preparation you did with regard to being 15 able to answer questions about that topic. 16 A I read it and Q You read the topic? 18 A Read the topic. 19 Q Okay. Then what? 20 A And knowing where our -- what procedures are 21 in regards to pools, and whether they are -- and 22 depending upon who the investor is; in this particular 23 one it's an HSBC file, that we get into the issue of 24 physical possession of the Note, and HSBC does not hold 25 any Notes.

19 19 1 Q Okay. With regard to number 4, "HSBC's 2 agreements or contracts with Merrill Lynch Credit 3 Corporation, Merrill Lynch Mortgage Investors, Inc., 4 Wells Fargo, N.A., and PHH Mortgage Corporation 5 including, but not limited to, agreements related to 6 assignments of Notes and/or Mortgages for inclusion as 7 trust property or trust funds for trusts for which HSBC 8 is a Trustee, for the Merrill Lynch Mortgage Investors 9 Trust Series, MLCC Mortgage Pass Through 10 Certificates trust." 11 What preparation did you engage in to be able 12 to answer questions about topic number 4? 13 A None, because I don't believe that Merrill 14 Lynch Mortgage Investors Trust Series MLCC is the 15 correct pool of loans; and so, therefore, I didn't do 16 anything regarding MLMI. 17 Q It's not the correct pool of loans for what? 18 A For this loan. 19 Q And so why did you not provide us with this 20 information, or why did you not study this particular 21 information? 22 MS. LEWIS: Objection as to form. 23 THE WITNESS: Because the loan, according to 24 our business records, is not part of this pool so 25 why am I going to investigate this pool.

20 20 1 BY MR. CULLEN: 2 Q Okay. Because you're the corporate 3 representative to testify about these topics. 4 A Right. And I am stating that the loan in 5 question here is not part of this pool. 6 Q And how do you know that? 7 A Because it's not part of our business records. 8 Q And when you say your business records, are 9 you talking about the business records of HSBC or PHH? 10 A PHH Mortgage Corporation. I apologize. 11 Q So have you ever reviewed the business records 12 of HSBC? 13 A No. 14 Q So how do you know it's not part of their 15 business records, that it is or is not part of any 16 particular pool? 17 A I don't. 18 Q And what records at PHH did you review to 19 determine that this Note in question in this case was 20 part of a particular pool? 21 A I looked at our mainframe system that 22 indicates the pool that it's supposed to be a part of. 23 Q Supposed to? 24 A Correct. 25 Q But you're not certain.

21 21 1 A I haven't run across a problem in my time of 2 testimony where a pool was not part of a particular pool 3 or was not owned by the particular investor, to question 4 it. 5 Q Is there any original document that you can 6 look at to make a determination as to whether a 7 particular loan is part of a particular pool? 8 A No. 9 Q Does HSBC have any records which reflects 10 which loans are part of which of the pools for which 11 they act as Trustee? 12 A I can't answer to HSBC. 13 Q You are the corporate representative of HSBC 14 today, correct? 15 A Yes. 16 Q Okay. And you can't answer that sort of 17 question -- or that question. 18 A Specific to HSBC, no, because we have Power of 19 Attorney, and we hold all the records of the loan. So I 20 check PHH's records. 21 Q And the PHH record that you checked was 22 something which -- what's it called? What's it like 23 mainframe records in your system? 24 A Our mainframe system. 25 Q Okay. Is that a designation of a particular

22 22 1 computer? 2 A Yes. It's an SP, CPI. It goes by a couple 3 different names. 4 Q And what particular record did you check 5 within that? 6 A There are screens within our systems that 7 indicate who the owner of the loan is. 8 Q Okay. The Scrivener's Error that we 9 referenced earlier today -- who made that? 10 A Who made the Scrivener's Error? 11 MS. LEWIS: Objection. 12 BY MR. CULLEN: 13 Q Yes. 14 A I don't know. 15 Q Do you think it was somebody at PHH? 16 MS. LEWIS: Objection to form. 17 THE WITNESS: I don't BY MR. CULLEN: 19 Q Well, if we assume that it was somebody at PHH 20 who made that Scrivener's Error, could they have made a 21 Scrivener's Error in the mainframe system, too? 22 MS. LEWIS: Objection. 23 THE WITNESS: Anything is possible. 24 BY MR. CULLEN: 25 Q Okay. When you checked the records, as you

23 23 1 say of PHH, did you find any trust with the name MLC ? 3 A No. 4 Q And did you find more than one trust with the 5 last part of the trust being designated as MLCC ? 6 A I just saw the one on our records. 7 Q And what is the only one that you have on your 8 records? 9 A HSBC Bank, USA, NA as Trustee for MLCC Q But how are you aware that there is another 11 trust with the same end of MLCC ? 12 MS. LEWIS: Objection. 13 THE WITNESS: Based upon the Answer that was 14 filed. 15 BY MR. CULLEN: 16 Q The Answer that was filed by? 17 A By Q Mr. Hall. 19 A Right. The original firm that represented 20 Mr. Hall. 21 Q Okay. As an HSBC corporate representative, is 22 the trust you just mentioned governed by a Pooling and 23 Service Agreement? 24 A I believe so, yes. 25 Q Okay. Did you review the Pooling and Service

24 24 1 Agreement in connection with your preparation for your 2 deposition today? 3 MS. LEWIS: Objection as to form. 4 THE WITNESS: No. 5 BY MR. CULLEN: 6 Q Why not? 7 A Because it is a contract, and I'm not a 8 contract attorney. It's several hundred pages long 9 typically, and it does not have anything specific to 10 this particular loan, other than it's part of it. 11 Q Is it your testimony that you cannot testify 12 with regard to the contents of the Pooling and Service 13 Agreement as the representative of HSBC here today? 14 MS. LEWIS: Objection. 15 THE WITNESS: Please define what contents are. 16 BY MR. CULLEN: 17 Q Well, that which is found in those 237 pages 18 or 300 pages, whatever page number you said A Contracts typically talk about how the 20 accounting is done in regards to the pool; the different 21 entities that are involved in the transactions of the 22 pool. 23 Q Right. Can you testify about those things? 24 MS. LEWIS: Objection. 25 MR. CULLEN: Basis?

25 25 1 MS. LEWIS: You're asking him to testify based 2 on speculation of what he can testify about. 3 You're not even asking him questions; and, also, 4 based on what, in fact, may be indicated as asking 5 for a legal conclusion. 6 BY MR. CULLEN: 7 Q The question is: Can you testify about those 8 things? 9 MS. LEWIS: Objection. What things? 10 MR. CULLEN: The things he just mentioned. 11 BY MR. CULLEN: 12 Q Can you? 13 A I don't know. 14 Q Then you don't know, alright. 15 So you did not prepare in terms of reviewing 16 the Pooling and Service Agreement; is that correct? 17 A Correct. 18 Q With regard to any of the trusts. 19 A I did not review the Pooling and Service 20 Agreement, no. 21 Q Okay. Have you ever met with anybody who is 22 an employee of HSBC with regard to discussing your 23 testimony today? 24 A No. 25 Q Have you ever met anybody from the corporation

26 HSBC? 2 A Not current employee. 3 Q Okay. Former employees? 4 A Former, yes. 5 Q In connection with this litigation? 6 A No. 7 Q Okay. Do you know who Katherine Rainey is? 8 R-A-I-N-E-Y. 9 A I've seen her name on the Assignment, but I 10 don't know who she is. But I have seen her name before. 11 Q And did you remember the name of the Notary on 12 the Assignment? 13 A Not off the top of my head. 14 Q Alright, we'll get to it. It's not off the 15 top of my head either. 16 A I'm sure we will. 17 Q Okay. "Identify all the people you've talked 18 to with regard to your deposition today." 19 A Can I identify any of the people? 20 Q By name. 21 A Counsel here. I don't think I've talked to 22 anybody else. I can't recall. 23 Q Okay. Somebody set up the depo and told you 24 to show up or discussed with you in showing up? 25 A I received the Notice that there was a

27 27 1 deposition and to coordinate, so I coordinated. It's my 2 job to coordinate a time and -- 3 Q Does coordinate mean you have to do it? 4 A Absolutely. 5 Q Alright. Are you being paid by HSBC to appear 6 on their behalf today? 7 A No. 8 Q Are you being paid by anyone to appear at the 9 deposition today? 10 A It's part of my salary with PHH. 11 Q Tell me all the documents you reviewed in 12 preparation for this deposition. 13 MS. LEWIS: Objection. 14 THE WITNESS: As I mentioned before, I 15 reviewed the Answers that were filed; the Motion 16 for Summary Judgment that was filed by the 17 borrower. I reviewed some escrow-related letters. 18 I've reviewed some reinstatement letters that were 19 sent; some amounts due and owing that were filed. 20 I reviewed the Note; breach letters; payment 21 history; and records that -- what are mainframe is, 22 pay-off figures in preparation for trial on Monday 23 and such. 24 BY MR. CULLEN: 25 Q Did the HSBC Corporation supply you with any

28 28 1 documents in connection with your preparation for this 2 deposition? 3 A No. 4 Q All the document that you reviewed -- where 5 did you review them? 6 A In our office in Mount Laurel at my desk. 7 Q Did you review the original documents? 8 A No. Copies. 9 Q Images on your screens? 10 A Yes. 11 Q The first topic for discussion is: 1. All 12 matters identified in Plaintiff's Witness and Exhibit 13 List filed August 16th, Did you review the Witness and Exhibit List 15 that Plaintiff's counsel had filed? 16 A I don't know if I looked at that list. 17 Q Okay. Did you go through each of the numbered 18 items on the list and try to make a determination as to 19 how you could prepare for that particular topic? 20 A I did not talk with counsel about that. 21 Q And did you do any preparation yourself? 22 A For reviewing of the Witness and Exhibit 23 Lists? 24 Q And of the other topics. 25 A I had multiple discussions with counsel as to

29 29 1 what the issues are, and I read this and did the best I 2 could. 3 Q Okay. So did you review the Plaintiff's 4 Witness and Exhibit List in preparation for your 5 deposition today? 6 A No. 7 Q Why not? 8 A I just didn't. 9 Q Okay. Do you know what matters HSBC 10 Corporation has determined are relevant to this case? 11 MS. LEWIS: Can you repeat that? 12 BY MR. CULLEN: 13 Q Do you know which matters HSBC Corporation has 14 determined are relevant to this case? 15 MS. LEWIS: Objections. Calls for a legal 16 conclusion. 17 THE WITNESS: It's a foreclosure case. 18 BY MR. CULLEN: 19 Q So what issues are relevant? 20 MS. LEWIS: Objection to form. 21 BY MR. CULLEN: 22 Q According to HSBC. 23 MS. LEWIS: Objection. 24 THE WITNESS: The issues are the fact that the 25 monies were not -- had not been received for

30 30 1 payments that had been missed, and the loan was 2 then accelerated to foreclosure, and we are here 3 now. 4 BY MR. CULLEN: 5 Q And those are the only issues according to 6 HSBC. 7 A I don't know what other issues there may be. 8 (Exhibit No. 3 was marked for identification 9 and attached hereto) 10 BY MR. CULLEN: 11 Q Okay. I'm showing you Exhibit Number 3. It's 12 Plaintiff's Supplemental Witness List which was filed on 13 October -- I think it's 17th, 2013; I guess that would 14 be yesterday. 15 Have you seen this before today? 16 A No. 17 Q Okay. Number 1: The first witness is 18 Corporate Representative of HSBC Bank, USA, as Trustee 19 for MLC , or other representative with knowledge 20 regarding all matters relevant herein -- or hereto excuse me. Do you see that? 22 A I do. 23 Q Do you suppose that is just another 24 Scrivener's Error? 25 A I didn't draw up the document, so I don't

31 31 1 know. 2 Q Okay. And that's why I'm asking you about 3 which issues were -- which matters are relevant here, 4 too, because the original Witness List has the same 5 nomenclature in terms of what you'll testify to. 6 And for HSBC, the matters that are relevant 7 hereto was that there was a debt that wasn't paid; it 8 was accelerated; and there was foreclosure or something 9 to that effect? 10 MS. LEWIS: Objection. 11 THE WITNESS: Yes. 12 BY MR. CULLEN: 13 Q Okay. Are there any issues with regard to who 14 holds or possesses the Note? 15 A No. 16 Q Are there any issues with how the Note came 17 into possession of HSBC, as Trustee? 18 A No. 19 Q Okay. Why do you think those are issues which 20 are relevant? 21 MS. LEWIS: Objection. Calls for a legal 22 conclusion. 23 THE WITNESS: They're not. 24 BY MR. CULLEN: 25 Q They're not? Why do you say that, based upon?

32 32 1 A They're not issues. 2 Q They're not issues? You said -- 3 A Define what you're calling as an issue. 4 Q Issues in this litigation. 5 MS. LEWIS: Objection. Calls for a legal 6 conclusion. 7 THE WITNESS: It's -- 8 BY MR CULLEN: 9 Q It's what? 10 A We're talking about what the issues are. I 11 don't think it's an issue as to where the Note was. 12 Q Because? 13 A Because it's been in possession of PHH since 14 the inception of the loan and/or it's been sent to the 15 attorney's office who filed the original Note and 16 Mortgage. 17 Q When was it sent to the attorney's office? 18 A Q When? 20 A There was a document that was uploaded on 21 August 18th of 2008, as a bailee letter. 22 Q A bailee letter? 23 A A bailee letter is a letter that we send to 24 the attorneys' firms that list the documents that have 25 been shipped to the attorney firm.

33 33 1 Q How do you spell bailee? 2 A B-A-I-L-E-E. 3 Q The second topic on the Notice of Deposition 4 provides that you are to give testimony with regard to 5 the assignment of the Note and/or Mortgage which is the 6 subject of the above-referenced foreclosure action to 7 HSBC, including the date the assignment took place; the 8 date that HSBC became holder of the Note; the date HSBC 9 received the original Promissory Note; the date HSBC 10 received the original Mortgage or copies of the recorded 11 Mortgage; all consideration being paid by HSBC for the 12 assignment of the Note and Mortgage; the date such 13 consideration was received; the amount of consideration; 14 from whom consideration was paid; the address of the 15 facility where the original Note was housed; and the 16 dates or date ranges that HSBC has physical possession 17 of the Note and Mortgage. 18 Did you prepare to answer questions with 19 regard to that topic? 20 A I tried as best I could. 21 Q Alright. Can you tell us when the Note was 22 assigned? 23 A The Note was assigned to HSBC? 24 Q When? 25 A Is that your question?

34 34 1 Q When? Yes, we're both asking questions; okay, 2 I'm sorry. 3 A Yeah. 4 Q When was the Note assigned? 5 A When was the Note assigned -- it was 6 transferred to HSBC Bank to this pool in October Q And that was pursuant to the Pooling and 8 Service Agreement? 9 A That was transferred as part of -- yes. 10 Clarify, please. 11 Q Was it transferred to the Trust pursuant to a 12 Pooling and Service Agreement? 13 A The ownership of the Note, yes. 14 Q Does the Pooling and Service Agreement provide 15 a particular path that a Note is to go through before it 16 gets to the Trust? 17 A I don't know. I have not seen anything to 18 that effect in review of other Pooling and Service 19 Agreements. 20 Q But you did review the Pooling and Service 21 Agreement for the Trust here, right? 22 A Right. 23 Q Okay. Take a look at Exhibit 1, which excuse me. It's Attachment 1 to Exhibit What is that document?

35 35 1 A Assignment of Deed of Trust/Mortgage. 2 Q Okay. What is the date that document was 3 signed? 4 A July 12, Q And what does, if anything at all, does it 6 assign? 7 A It is assigning a certain Promissory Note and 8 Deed of Trust/Mortgage described as follows: Mortgage 9 dated 6/30/2006; Amount: $375,000, executed by Charles 10 Hall; and with an address of 5550 North Ocean Avenue, 11 Riviera Beach, Florida Q The document there says, up at the top on the 13 right-hand side -- it says prepared by Poolen. 14 Do you see that? 15 A Yes. 16 Q What or who is Poolen? 17 A I do not know. 18 Q Okay. And who filled in the information on 19 this particular document that is in handwritten form? 20 A I do not know. 21 Q And when was that information filled in on the 22 document? 23 A I do not know. 24 Q Do you know why this document, if it was 25 indeed signed on 7/12/2006, was not recorded until

36 36 1 December 2nd, 2008, according to the stamp at the top 2 right-hand corner? 3 A No. 4 Q Is it a regular practice of PHH to wait many 5 months before filing documents such as this? 6 A I've seen it before. 7 Q Is it a regular practice? 8 A I don't know. I can't determine whether it's 9 a regular practice or not. I'm not Q How many times did -- I didn't mean to cut you 11 off. 12 A I'm just trying to clarify that. I'm not part 13 of that department that handles assignments. 14 Q I appreciate that. 15 How many times have you seen this before? 16 A I'd only be guessing and say a half dozen 17 times; maybe more. I really can't make any kind of 18 quantitative answer to that. 19 Q Is there a procedure employed at PHH which 20 indicates how much time PHH is to hold a particular 21 instrument such as this before they get it recorded in 22 the appropriate county? 23 A I do not know. 24 Q Who would know that? 25 A Somebody that handles assignments.

37 37 1 Q Okay. With regard to this particular 2 Assignment, can you tell how it has information with 3 regard to the recorded date and the book and page number 4 of the recorded date, which is one day after the 5 Assignment is signed? 6 A Repeat the question. 7 Q Can you tell how it is that this particular 8 Assignment includes information with regard to the 9 recorded date of 7/13/06? 10 A It's handwritten in. 11 Q And was it written in there at the time that 12 the Assignment was signed by Ms. Rainey? 13 MS. LEWIS: Objection. 14 THE WITNESS: I don't see how it could be. 15 BY MR. CULLEN: 16 Q Okay. And do you believe Ms. Rainey may have 17 signed this, indeed in blank? 18 A I'm not going to speculate for Ms. Rainey; how 19 she signed it. 20 Q Is it HSBC's position that this Assignment 21 could not possibly have had the information as to the 22 recorded date in the Assignment as of the time it was 23 signed on 7/12/06? 24 MS. LEWIS: Objection. 25 THE WITNESS: I don't know how that

38 38 1 information would be entered or handwritten into 2 the Assignment after July 12th. 3 BY MR. CULLEN: 4 Q Okay. Is this the document which assigns the 5 Note to HSBC? 6 MS. LEWIS: Objection as to form. 7 THE WITNESS: It's an Assignment of the 8 Mortgage. It's not -- the Note is what the loan is 9 based upon. This is their Mortgage; that's the 10 lien on their property. 11 BY MR. CULLEN: 12 Q As HSBC's representative, is it the position 13 of HSBC that this is just an Assignment of the Mortgage? 14 A Yes. 15 Q It is not an Assignment of the Note? 16 A Correct. 17 Q Okay. Is there some other document which 18 assigns the Note to HSBC? 19 A I'm not aware of any, other than the Pooling 20 and Service Agreement, and the schedule that would list 21 that particular loan. 22 Q And you've reviewed neither for your 23 deposition today. 24 A Correct. 25 Q Okay. Are those available to you to review?

39 39 1 A If I make phone calls. 2 Q Okay. 3 A I could probably hunt it down. 4 Q Are they part of the business records, if you 5 will, of PHH? 6 A They would be. 7 Q Okay. Why would they be part of the business 8 records of PHH? 9 MS. LEWIS: Objection. 10 THE WITNESS: Because we've been the servicer 11 of the loan. 12 BY MR. CULLEN: 13 Q And so, therefore, you keep all of the trust 14 documents? 15 A Yes. 16 Q Including the Pooling and Service Agreement. 17 A Yes. 18 Q And do you have copies of the Pooling and 19 Service Agreement, which I think you described as a 20 contract, which are actually signed and executed? 21 A There should be one available. 22 Q Within the business records of PHH? 23 A Yes. 24 Q And why did you not review that in preparation 25 for your deposition today?

40 40 1 MS. LEWIS: Objection. Repetitive. It has 2 been asked and answered multiple times. 3 THE WITNESS: I just didn't. 4 BY MR. CULLEN; 5 Q Okay. Did you make the decision as to what 6 you would or would not review in preparation for your 7 deposition today? 8 A I worked with counsel to identify the key 9 areas of the deposition. 10 Q Tell me how much time you worked with counsel 11 in that regard. 12 MS. LEWIS: Objection on privilege. 13 BY MR. CULLEN: 14 Q How much time? 15 MS. LEWIS: Objection. I'm asserting 16 privilege on that; what he and I discussed and how 17 much time we spent in MR. CULLEN: I didn't ask anything about what 19 it is that you discussed. I asked how much time 20 you spent preparing with your counsel. It's 21 certainly open to interrogation. 22 BY MR. CULLEN: 23 Q Please answer the question. 24 A A couple hours. 25 Q In person?

41 41 1 A Part of it was. 2 Q Did you review the documents with counsel? 3 A Clarify documents. 4 Q Notice of Deposition? 5 A I don't know if we specifically went over the 6 Notice of Deposition. 7 Q Okay. But you had possession of the Notice of 8 Deposition at least a week before this deposition today? 9 A A few days, yes. 10 Q Have you been involved in other depositions 11 this week? 12 A Not this week but other trials in other 13 matters. 14 Q Other trials and matters in Palm Beach County? 15 A No. 16 Q Okay. Have you testified in Palm Beach County 17 in any trial before? 18 A I have. 19 Q Okay. When was the last time? 20 A I can't be specific but probably in the last 21 couple months. 22 Q Okay. Now, with regard to the Assignment, 23 which we've already identified as being Attachment 1 to 24 Exhibit 1, is it the Corporation's position that that 25 does not assign any interest in the Note?

42 42 1 MS. LEWIS: Objection, for a legal conclusion. 2 THE WITNESS: I don't know if I'm comfortable 3 in answering the question just from the legal 4 standpoint of it. 5 BY MR. CULLEN: 6 Q Is there any document, other than the 7 Assignment, which assigns any interest in the Note to 8 HSBC as Trustee? 9 A The Pooling and Service Agreement. 10 Q Okay. Does it reference this particular Note? 11 A I didn't specifically review the records. In 12 prior review of loans outside of this one, the Exhibit 13 List of loans that are part of a particular pool are not 14 listed within the document itself. I need to go to our 15 secondary marketing department and speak to 16 representatives there to see about getting an Excel 17 spreadsheet that would identify this particular loan as 18 being part of a particular pool. 19 Q But to be clear, that Excel spreadsheet will 20 just be some indication that this loan is in that pool, 21 but it really won't reflect any assignment of the loan 22 to the pool. 23 MS. LEWIS: Objection. Calls for a legal 24 conclusion. 25 THE WITNESS: I don't know how to answer that.

43 43 1 BY MR. CULLEN: 2 Q You, the Corporation, do not know how to 3 answer that question? 4 MS. LEWIS: Objection. He just answered that 5 question. 6 THE WITNESS: Me, as myself personally, I am 7 not sure if I am comfortable in answering that 8 question due to the legal issues involved. 9 BY MR. CULLEN: 10 Q What makes you uncomfortable about it? 11 A Because I don't know Q I haven't heard a corporation as being 13 uncomfortable, but go ahead. 14 A You can refer to me as the Corporation. A 15 corporation is a named business. I am not a named 16 business. I am a person. 17 Q Okay, alright; fair enough. 18 A So as far as the specific document that says 19 that this particular loan number, as identified here in 20 the Assignment of Mortgage is specifically assigned to a 21 particular pool, I don't know. 22 Q Ron, is the loan number referenced -- is that 23 the number that is down at the bottom, handwritten F08? 24 A No. 25 Q Is it otherwise referenced on the Assignment?

44 44 1 A I don't think so. 2 Q Okay, alright. So to get back to the question 3 -- and I apologize for being sarcastic. I shouldn't be, 4 and I apologize. 5 If the Assignment does not exist -- a piece of 6 paper does not exist hypothetically, can you point me to 7 any document other than the Pooling and Service 8 Agreement, which might assign the interest of the Note 9 and the Trust? 10 MS. LEWIS: Objection. 11 THE WITNESS: My understanding is that having 12 the Note itself as bearer paper is ownership of the 13 Note. 14 BY MR. CULLEN: 15 Q And that is your understanding from knowledge 16 of the law? From somebody else? 17 A In speaking with in-house counsel in regards 18 to other matters that I've testified to, and trying to 19 get an understanding of the process of loan transfers. 20 Q Does it make any difference to the Trust how 21 it is that you have possession -- physical possession of 22 the Note, in terms of whether that Note can be part of 23 the trust pool? 24 MS. LEWIS: Objection. 25 THE WITNESS: Repeat the question.

45 45 1 BY MR. CULLEN: 2 Q Does it make any difference how the Trust 3 obtained the Note, in terms of whether that particular 4 loan can be part of the pool? 5 A I don't know. 6 Q Okay. Do you know what a REMIC is -- a REMIC? 7 A I've heard the term, but I'm not really sure. 8 Q Do you know why Pooling and Service Agreements 9 even exist? 10 A No. I'm not involved with the accounts aspect 11 of it. 12 Q Alright. I don't mean to mischaracterize your 13 testimony -- so correct me if I'm wrong. But it's your 14 testimony that the Assignment does not transfer an 15 interest in the Note to the Trust; is that correct? 16 MS. LEWIS: Objection BY MR. CULLEN: 18 Q As the bank -- excuse me. As HSBC. 19 MS. LEWIS: Object to form. 20 THE WITNESS: Yes. 21 BY MR. CULLEN: 22 Q Okay. But is it also the position of HSBC 23 that because they have possession of the Note physical possession of the Note, that they have the 25 right to include it in the Trust?

46 46 1 MS. LEWIS: Objection as to form. 2 THE WITNESS: I don't know the answer. I 3 don't know if I can answer that question. 4 BY MR. CULLEN: 5 Q Okay. I'll put it more in an affirmative way. 6 Tell me all the reasons that HSBC contends 7 that it has possession -- that it has the right to 8 enforce the Note. Give me all the reasons. 9 MS. LEWIS: Objection as to form. 10 THE WITNESS: Sounds like a legal conclusion 11 to me. 12 BY MR. CULLEN: 13 Q That you're supposed to answer. 14 A Yeah, but I'm not an attorney. 15 Q I understand that. 16 A I'm not the law. I don't know the law. 17 Q Okay. 18 A So as far as contracts are concerned, I'm not 19 a contract attorney, nor have I ever spoken to any of 20 the people that are related to that. So I don't know if 21 I feel comfortable in answering that question. I'm not 22 trying to avoid it. I just -- I don't know if I can 23 answer that. 24 Q Okay. Is it the case that HSBC can only point 25 to possession of the Note and possibly something in the

47 47 1 PSA as its basis for contending they have the right to 2 enforce the Note? 3 MS. LEWIS: Objection. Calls for a legal 4 conclusion. 5 THE WITNESS: Again, I don't know if I feel 6 comfortable answering that question. 7 BY MR. CULLEN: 8 Q You did feel comfortable in saying that the 9 Assignment did not transfer an interest in the Note. 10 A Right. 11 Q Okay. Why did you feel comfortable in 12 answering that question but not the rest? 13 A Because the document speaks for itself. It's 14 an Assignment of the Deed Mortgage. It doesn't say 15 anything about Assignment of the Note. 16 Q Okay. Who's the beneficiary or who are the 17 beneficiaries of the Trust which holds this Note? 18 A The pool itself is the beneficiary, and they 19 received the payment streams. As loan payments are 20 received, it goes through the normal accounting and our 21 accounting processes and gets distributed to the pool. 22 Q Who performs that function of distributing 23 this income stream to the pool? 24 A I'm not 100 percent sure but PHH is the 25 servicer, and we handle the day-to-day operations. We

48 48 1 receive the money, and then we have Wells Fargo Bank -- 2 it's a master servicer, and that handles the overall 3 accounting. And how that gets distributed I don't know. 4 Q Okay. Earlier, I believe, you testified that 5 the Note was assigned to HSBC in, I think you said 6 October A Yes. 8 Q Okay. And what's that based upon? 9 A A review of our mainframe system that 10 indicates approximate dates as to when it transferred 11 from one investor to another. 12 Q And from which investor did it transfer? 13 A Merrill Lynch, MLCC -- Merrill Lynch Credit 14 Corporation. 15 Q And it transferred to who? 16 A To HSBC Bank, NA -- HSBC Bank, USA, NA, as 17 Trustee for MLCC Q Right. And is all that on your mainframe 19 computer? 20 A Yes. 21 Q Okay. And does your mainframe computer 22 indicate how it was that that occurred? 23 A How it occurred? 24 Q Yes. 25 A I don't know where I would locate something as

49 49 1 to how it occurred. 2 Q Did the mainframe computer give you an exact 3 date that the HSBC became holder of the Note? October A 24th. It has the date of October 24th, but as 6 to the specific date, it's always been my testimony that 7 it's on or about that date. 8 Q Why is that? 9 A Because it's information that's being added 10 into our mainframe, and whether that person did it 11 exactly on the day of when it transferred or when the well, whether somebody can back-date that; if they 13 entered it in later, I don't know. I don't know who 14 enters that information; so, therefore, the date is all 15 pretty relative as far as dates on PSAs and Q Can you get into the mainframe system? 17 A Yes. 18 Q And could you make changes to the dates? 19 A No. 20 Q But somebody else could. 21 A Yes. 22 Q Do you know when the Corporation first 23 received either the original Mortgage or copies of the 24 recorded Mortgage? 25 A Repeat the question.

50 50 1 Q Do you know the date the Corporation received 2 the original Mortgage or copies of the recorded Mortgage 3 -- HSBC? 4 A HSBC? 5 Q Yes. 6 A No. 7 Q Is that on your mainframe? 8 A I don't know where it would be. 9 Q Do you know if HSBC paid any consideration for 10 the assignment of the Note to the Trust? 11 A No. 12 Q Do you know if Merrill Lynch Credit 13 Corporation was a sponsor or originator to the PSA or 14 the Trust which you now contend holds this particular 15 Note? 16 A Was Merrill Lynch Credit Corporation Q Yes. 18 A -- involved with Q Was it either an originator or sponsor? 20 MS. LEWIS: Objection as to form. 21 THE WITNESS: I don't know. 22 BY MR. CULLEN: 23 Q Do you know if Merrill Lynch Credit 24 Corporation was a depositor with regard to that Trust? 25 A If it's a contract issue, I don't know.

51 51 1 Q Contracts have definitions in them, right? 2 A They do. 3 Q And are you familiar with these particular 4 ones -- name, sponsor, originator, depositor, often 5 being defined in PSAs? 6 A I've heard sponsor before. Depositor -- I've 7 seen that before. What were some of the other terms you 8 were using? 9 Q Originator. 10 A Originator -- I don't know if I've seen that 11 specific name, but it may be in the form of something 12 else. 13 Q Okay. In a PSA, have you seen depositor ever 14 defined? 15 A I have seen it, yes. 16 Q Alright. And does that require you to have 17 contract knowledge to be able to say what the depositor 18 was defined as in a particular Trust? 19 MS. LEWIS: Objection to form. 20 THE WITNESS: It's a matter of me reading it 21 and memorizing it, which I have not. 22 BY MR. CULLEN: 23 Q Okay. And, in fact, in this case you haven't 24 even read the PSA for this particular Trust which you 25 say holds this Note?

52 52 1 A As we've established many times. 2 Q Okay. Can you give us the address of the 3 facility where the original Note was housed? 4 A Physical address, no. 5 Q Okay. Can you give me a state? 6 A PHH originated the loan on behalf of Merrill 7 LYnch Credit Corporation, so those documents would have 8 been maintained within PHH, which is in New Jersey. 9 Q Is that the only state in which PHH operates? 10 A No. 11 Q It has a facility in Florida, too? 12 A No. We just have one in Buffalo, and there 13 are several other offices around the country or a 14 satellite. I don't know what their functions are. 15 Q Can you tell us which one, if any of them, 16 held the original Note before it was sent to the Clerk's 17 file? 18 A Specifically, no. 19 Q Okay. Do you know if any of them held it? 20 A We were the originator so we would have to 21 have held it. 22 MR. CULLEN: Okay. We've been going about an 23 hour. Let's take a break, please; about ten 24 minutes. 25 THE WITNESS: I would like to be able to --

53 53 1 MS. LEWIS: Yeah, I was going to ask you -- he 2 has a flight time so we just want to estimate. 3 MR. CULLEN: Probably two and a half -- three 4 more hours. 5 THE WITNESS: Alright. As long as I'm done by 6 3:00, then I'm fine. 7 MR. CULLEN: Okay, thanks. 8 (Brief recess taken at 11:35 a.m.) 9 (Back on the record at 11:45 a.m.) 10 BY MR. CULLEN: 11 Q Take a look at this Exhibit 1, and go to item 12 number 4. I think it's on the fourth page of the 13 exhibit, okay. It says, HSBC's agreement and goes on. 14 A Where are we looking at? 15 Q Number four. 16 A Oh, okay. 17 Q Okay, which is also on the fourth page of the 18 exhibit. And down there at the bottom, I'm pointing 19 this out on paragraph four, it talks about Merrill Lynch 20 Mortgage Investors Trust Series, MLCC Mortgage 21 Pass Through Certificates Trust; do you see that? 22 A Yes. 23 Q Okay. Now, you mentioned, I believe, that 24 there were two trusts which had the nomenclature MLCC , correct?

54 54 1 A Yes. 2 Q Okay. And how is the other one that's not 3 named here different from the one that is named here? 4 All the words, one word? 5 MS. LEWIS: Objection. Was asked and 6 answered. 7 BY MR. CULLEN: 8 Q The only reason I'm asking, Ron, is because 9 checking my notes and then checking notes of others, 10 we're unclear as to what it was exactly that you said, 11 and I'd like to be clear on the record. 12 A The Merrill Lynch Mortgage Investors Trust 13 Series -- that verbiage and the Mortgage Pass Through 14 Certificates Trust are not part of the other pool that 15 this loan is part of. 16 Q Okay. Is there other language, other than 17 just MLCC , in the other pool for which this loan 18 is a part? 19 A HSBC Bank, USA, as Trustee. 20 Q For? 21 A For MLCC is the other one, correct. 22 Q The correct pool. 23 (Cathy Cullen enters the conference room) 24 BY MR. CULLEN: 25 Q The one that's identified in four -- do you

55 55 1 have any familiarity with that particular Trust? 2 A No. 3 Q Okay. Do you have any idea why it is the 4 attorneys for you, as the Corporation, would have 5 provided us with the PSA for Merrill Lynch Mortgage 6 Investors Trust Series MLCC Mortgage Pass Through 7 Certificates that have nothing to do with this case, per 8 your testimony? 9 A I don't know. 10 Q Okay. Now, is it your understanding that the 11 other Trust, which I think you identified as HSBC, USA, 12 NA, as Trustee MLCC is that a Trust? 13 A Yes. 14 Q Is it a trust set up pursuant to a Pooling and 15 Service Agreement? 16 A Yes, haven't I already stated this? 17 Q Well, I had confusion about the name. I 18 apologize to ask you these questions, but I still plan 19 to get you out of here by 3:00 o'clock, unless we banter A Okay. Well, I see this and I see that, and 22 I've been down the road before of depositions where I've 23 spent four hours on two things and blown through all 24 that. But I was concerned myself with your whole list 25 of exhibits there, and we're spending all this time on