Minutes. Historic Preservation Workshop. August 7, 2013

Transcription

1 Minutes Historic Preservation Workshop The City ofdaytona Beach, Florida August 7, 2013 Minutes of the Historic Preservation Workshop/City Commission of The City of Daytona Beach, Florida, held on Wednesday, August 7, 2013 at 4:00 p.m., City Hall, conference room 149B, 301 S. Ridgewood Avenue, Daytona Beach, Florida. Attendance. Commissioner Carl Lentz, IV Commissioner Pamela Woods Commissioner Kelly White Commissioner Robert A. Gilliland Commissioner Patrick 1. Henry Commissioner Paula R. Reed Mayor Derrick L. Henry Present Present Present Present Present Present Present Also Present: James V. Chisholm, City Manager Marie Hartman, City Attorney Jennifer L. Thomas, City Clerk 1. Welcome Mayor Henry opened the workshop by welcoming everyone to the Historic Preservation Workshop this 7th day ofaugust He turned the workshop over to the City Manager. 2. Presentation - James V. Chisholm, City Manager James V. Chisholm, City Manager stated he would like Mr. Walton to give the Commission some history and background on the historic issues for The City of Daytona Beach. We will then move onto the subject of Certified Local Government (CLG) and also discuss the districts as a part ofit. Richard Walton, Planning Director stated the City started Historic Preservation with an ordinance back in 1986 for dedication and protection of buildings in the districts having significant historical significance. The first the first local district was adopted in 1987; the South Beach Street Historic District. Six other local sites were adopted after 1987 and there is a difference between local districts and local sites. In 2008 there was a significant overhaul to our ordinance which had a provision that once we became a Certified Local Government (CLG) we would have to meet certain requirements that we were not doing before. In 2010 we adopted our second local district which is the Seabreeze Historical District. In 2011, the year we became a Certified Local Government (CLG) and was eligible

2 for state funding, we adopted another specific site for the Blodgett House. We received our first grant from the state which was specifically designated for training and workshops. In 2013, we're waiting on a decision for another grant to help with developing the design guidelines from the first one. In the creation of the Seabreeze District, only a portion to the north was adopted and it does have design guidelines. If a person wishes to come in to modify or alter a structure, even if it is a vacant property, there are design guidelines they have to meet for appropriate development. When we applied to become a certified local government shortly after we changed our ordinance, the grant paperwork was the fust thing we needed to have in place and was ultimately awarded it. We essentially became partnered with the different state and federal programs and standards. We had a role in the National Registration nomination for which we had several national districts allow us to participate directly in the Florida Property Tax Abatement Program. We received technical assistance and training programs from the state. One ofthe issues of urgency was to hold this meeting and include the Historic Preservation Board members. The stage that the board is at with its process right now is that they would like to take the national districts and convert them to local districts. The outdated data needed to be brought current. We held public hearings to in order to create an overlay that was recommended by the Historic Preservation Board and Planning Board so it could be brought before the Commission. When we designated the Seabreeze District there were many comments from the property owners within the national district. The City Commission ultimately decided the boundary that they did; staff was directed that before we reached the fmal stage we wanted to receive input from the Commission. There is funding cost for it. We will also need to update the old survey. Tom Weitnauer is our Historic Preservation Officer and has been involved with those. I will have him go into more detail to help you understand where we are at this stage. Tom Weitnauer, Planner/Historic Preservation Board Liaison stated the board meets monthly along with property owners. The historic district boundaries are prestigious but they do not have what local historic districts have. Property owners come and consult with staff before going to the board when decisions need to be made involving overlays, additions or significant changes to a structure. We wanted to come to you to explain that this is a yearlong rigorous process and it can become very expensive to go through the steps and hold meetings and inform the property owners in a proposed district that the city is considering a designation. Local districts do not have to overlay boundaries with the National districts; it depends on what the community wants to do. The Historic Board has been active over the last couple years. About a year and a half ago, Paul Weaver of Historic Property Associates from St. Augustine, Florida came down and completed a study for the E-Zone. He was asked to go through the national boundary and assess any changes that occurred from 1996 when the national boundaries were submitted and approved by the state and federal offices. He noted in his executive summary that the concentrations of historic property in some parts were reduced to demolition or insensitive construction techniques. The composite of the yellow and the green was and still is the national boundary. His recommendation is to consider the yellow area as a local district. The Historic Board discussed it at length and in May 2012 they unanimously recommended that the entire area be considered for a local district. We received approval to hold a property owner meeting with the Surfside presidents at the Peabody Auditorium. We described what historical preservation was and went through the guidelines we drafted that are included in your packet. The board is asking for 2

3 your direction on how to move forward. The survey has been updated fairly recently and there is an $18,000 cost to adopt the district which does get publicly noticed and advertised. There are some areas that are colored differently and identified as non-contributing which means it never had or it has lost its architectural significance. If it is contributing, it still has it. Mr. Weaver stated some ofthose that are still contributing have more architectural quality than others. While the board was waiting on a decision about the Surfside district, they began looking at the South Peninsula area. They want to propose that whole area be considered for local designation and there are steps to that because the survey was old. Most of the national districts were surveyed in the late 1980'sand 1990's. The estimated cost to resurvey that area is approximately $31,000 and a future cost of $33,000 to hold public hearing notices with the Historic Preservation Board, the Planning Board and the City Commission. There are benefits to Historic Preservation also. He and the board worked on the summary sheets in your packet. This concludes my overview and if you have any questions, feel free to ask. We ask for your direction in a future meeting for the Historic Board. Mayor Henry stated we have heard from Staff and would like to hear from the members of the board before the City Commission comments. 3. Discussion - City Commission Pat Drago, Vice Chair, Historic Preservation Board stated our Chair, Matt Romanik told us he had a mediation and wasn't sure he would make it today and we have several other members who have jobs. I want you to know we do believe this is important and really appreciate your taking the time on this. If you read our minutes and as Mr. Weitnauer and Mr. Walton told you, we really wrestled with what the City wants to do with historic preservation. In general terms we have had a lot of discussions amongst ourselves over the last two to three years. First ofall we really believe in historic preservation and we believe it can be an economic engine and it should not be in conflict with the other economic development goals that the City Commission has. We have had that discussion; it is reflected in the design guidelines we drafted for the Surfside district to make sure we met with the Main Street Board to make sure we didn't set up internal conflicts, how often does an applicant come and find out this board wants to do this thing and another boards wants to...we tried to make sure that we could have a seamless process that furthers economic development goals as well as historic preservation where it is appropriate. We have the motion that was unanimous on the Surfside district we had a lot of internal discussion and we were really looking for feedback from you. We are aware ofthe City's commitment to the E-Zone. We see that they could be a perfect compliment; we don't want to start a war or conflict, what we want is to have a compliment and we are excited about the other movement we see for economic development. She asked that they not confuse land use with historic preservation. She wants to make sure they are real clear, they have looked at... and their comments on the Land Development Code (LDC) rewrite have been those things... eliminate non-conforming uses in... so that redevelopment can occur. What they hope will happen is that together they can hash out districts with local protection, design guidelines so that somebody will be eager and individual private investment can occur. What she hopes is that by recognizing the historic districts that we have and contributing structures that we have, we have gems, we have absolute treasures and we have individuals that are making 3

4 incremental improvements. We want to make it clear that we see historic preservation as an economic tool that is exciting that is a compliment to what is going on in other parts of the City and that is we understand one and other that together and working with design guidelines in making sure we don't set up inherent conflicts that we can... now ifin fact you feel that historic preservation overlay... let's draw it out, let's come to an agreement and if you don't want historic preservation, okay I'll be disappointed but I would rather know than continue to meet and not... they have looked at the Surfside district, she has driven up and down Braddock Avenue, Vermont, Ribault all those, there are architectural treasures and people making private investments. Once again it may be a land use decision; we've even talked about having businesses in these. It can be vital, it can be invigorating, it can encourage public and private industry; we are not necessarily asking for public investment and so your direction as to where you want to go and how you would like to get there, we really want that and we are ready to go to work for you. Mayor Henry stated thank you. Commissioner Gilliland stated when you look at the economic development aspects of historic preservation you really have to separate residential from commercial, you can't run the two together. There is almost $0 generated by historic preservation. He thinks site specific historic designation makes a lot of sense. One of the things we ran across a couple of years ago when we worked with Seabreeze was there was a lot ofmisunderstanding about what we could and couldn't do, the devil is in the details. He has concerns about expanding the Surfside area and in the past the board has disagreed with the experts that we have hired to make these kinds of determinations. To him there is a supply and demand issue, we've got two local historic districts already that are residential we could create a bunch more but that is when you have really locked down-the area, there is no grant money, maybe you could get $500 per house for residential renovation. You need to ask yourselves ifthis has been successful in other communities, he has never found one; unless it is hundreds of years old, St Augustine, Charleston examples she gave, the examples she gave are also commercial they weren't residential. It's a slippery slope; he is not saying we don't do it we have to protect our area, we have to make sure our kids and grandkids can look at things and see what it was like when our parents and grandparents were alive. He thinks it is a shame that we only have eight structures that are designated right now he would like us to have 100 but he is not a fan of local historic overlays he thinks they are actually a barrier to getting people to reinvest because ofthe restrictions and rules. Back in his constructions days when he was working outside of the District of Columbia (DC) in Alexandria renovating 250 year old townhouses the math back then was it cost you three times more to renovate than it does to...there are people who want to get into this they love it and their dream is to live in a historic property or live in a historic district but they are a sub-set of the whole population and ifyou get to the point where you have an oversupply ofthese districts and under demand from that sub-set ofpopulation that might want to live there or invest there; then you've not done something that is good for your community. He is not saying we shouldn't we need to move forward, we need to embrace historic preservation but we need to do it the right way. He doesn't think taking the majority of the beachside and making it into three different historic overlays is the right move. 4

5 Mayor HeillY stated they are looking for a specific direction even if we don't give it to them today but at some point in the very near future, I am going to have to say as a Commission this is what we need you to do. Commissioner Lentz stated we have had an opportunity with three years of experience with the Seabreeze Historic Overlay district has there been any feedback from the residents. Commissioner Woods stated the people that live in historic homes in her zone are exactly the kind of people Rob was talking about. He evidently talks to people that do not talk to me that say they are not happy with it; if he has only talked to five people out of the several hundred that live there, that's a very small percentage. Things we try to do in the neighborhoods we try to get a majority, people have not come to meetings when we try to do things in general. Neighborhood meetings are held every month and we have actually have not had anyone come and say at any of the meetings that they are opposed to what is going on. The people that are there that live in the neighborhood understand the rules and the guidelines. She talked to staff and if there is a problem, try to let them know. If people are complaining she does not know about it and the neighbors that she knows don't know about it. Commissioner Gilliland stated but don't forget we also started with a much larger area and in the end we came up with the right geographic boundary where it would work and he thinks it has worked. Some people are not happy about it and some people are. We spent 18 months working on it and that was a very unique area because it had a lot of owner occupants. It has a lot of folks who took pride in their homes and are already making investments. He would be cautious about creating too large of an area or too many geographic areas that have that characteristic. Commissioner Woods stated again all she can say is she has not received complaints and if you were to ask staff... Commissioner Lentz stated his question would be more geared towards not the complaint aspect but have you heard anyone say "wow this has been an incredible too for the area." Commissioner Woods stated the people that live in the neighborhood in the old homes think it is very positive; it's another way to market your home when it is up for sale. It's a local historic district, it's a contributing structure and that is a definite market that people look for in communities it's not the full market but it's a niche market and we do market our homes that way. She has heard people say that it is a good thing, the neighbors that she knows all supported it being a local historic district. Mr. Chisholm stated he knows the Palmetto Street Project in the Historic District has been real successful. It has a character all its own. You can't say that about ever other area. That is what he agrees with Commissioner Gilliland. There are some areas the characteristic, and architecture, and uses are compatible with home ownership and rehabilitation. He only recalls one project in the Palmetto area that went back through the Historic Preservation Board for approval... and it went back and forth a number of times, there were issues 5

6 associated with configuration. Historical Area of Seabreeze. He asked if there were any permits that went through the Mr. Weitnauer stated yes, six in the last year and half. Mr. Chisholm clarified that they had been residential and asked if there had been any issues with them. Mr. Weitnauer stated no. Commissioner Woods stated the thing with South Beach Street which is the old one...the issue with it is it doesn't have design guidelines which they are trying to address. We knew that we had to have design guidelines that weren't sticks, but carrots. You don't go in and make Historic Preservation punitive. So South Beach Street...she thinks of it as Old Daytona...again it gives it a cache...look at what the Community Redevelopment Area (CRA) money has done to add to that sense ofneighborhood and other cities do it. There are other cities like Lakeland and Winter Park that have really strong historic residential neighborhoods, that have come about in the last 20 years and they are very much like our neighborhoods. Commissioner Gilliland stated that we just need to get Publix here. $100,000 a year jobs... When you have those Commissioner Woods stated she was just saying their neighborhoods work and they have incredible signage and they are identified by their neighborhoods and it has really turned around the neighborhoods in that city. She has been gone 20 years from Lakeland and she knows what it looked like then and knows what it looks like know and everyone should drive through there. Commissioner White stated that the issue with the Surfside Village is the one we need to give the most direction on. There are two questions: is there any part of that area that should be protected and what those boundaries should be. It seems that there is some thought that the boundaries need to overlay the E-Zone. Another thought is that it should be exclusive ofthe E-Zone and just the core residential area. Commissioner Woods stated she had another question for staff. In the E-Zone plan it says that the yellow area would remain residential or she asked if she read that wrong. You would have your commercial along Main Street and AlA and down to Grandview. Mr. Walton stated all that yellow here is not even in the E-Zone. The other thing that has held that up is getting an E-Zone Manager in here and establishing the boundaries and rules. Mr. Weaver's analysis on the Historic...even before we brought in AECOM...and there were six he identified that are part of what AECOM did and are part of the draft for the E Zone and the suggestion that they are incorporated into it as historic structures. The devil is in the details as far as the Land Development Code (LDC) implementation. 6

7 Commissioner Woods stated what she needs all ofthem to be clear on is that yellow is not in the E-Zone. Mr. Walton stated that is correct. Commissioner Woods stated that some ofit that we talked about... Mr. Chisholm stated some ofit is. Commissioner Woods clarified the yellow and asked where. Mr. Walton pointed them out on the map. Commissioner Woods stated that the conversation has always been that those would remain residential. Mr. Chisholm stated if you take the revised boundaries as proposed, not the ones recommended but proposed, with exception of that area there right on Main Street...you accomplish really what you want to do. Those ones really have value. When you get up in some of those other areas in his opinion meet the criteria. They don't have a lot of characteristics that he would think are that important. Commissioner White clarified that they hadn't created any design standards for the E-Zone that had been codified. Mr. Walton stated that was correct. Commissioner White the way she sees it, having worked in Historic districts as a private Citizen and having owned older buildings, it is very frustrating when you don't have clear design guidelines. When you have clear guidelines it is an incentive on the private side to invest. You know there is going to be some predictability. If the E-Zone has good design guidelines...all you are doing with Historic Districts is creating good design guidelines based on the character of the neighborhood. If we aren't going to designate those areas around the E-Zone as historic, then we need to set some other good design guidelines. It is in the tourist district and we owe it to the investment in our E-Zone to make sure the area around it looks good. Since most of the area around there is 1920s bungalow style anyway, it's rational to put a Historic District overlay. Commissioner Gilliland asked on the map what she thought should be included. Commissioner White stated that the yellow areas... Commissioner Gilliland asked if that included the cemetery and the part on the north side of the Main Street Bridge. 7

8 Commissioner White stated she didn't know what that little piece on Main Street was. Mr. Chisholm stated the Boot Hill...He wasn't sure. Mr. Walton stated in Mr. Weaver's update, when the National district was put in place, one of the requirements was that it has to be over 50 years old. The time they first did it, it wasn't 50 years old, when he updated it was. The Amoco Station that is there because the age... Commissioner Woods stated it has other historical relevance to the community. Commissioner White stated we have to have good design guidelines. The other part is adding the layer. Right now if you want to do something in a CRA that has an overlay, you have Historic Preservation Board, CRA Board, and Planning Board...at least three or four boards. Commissioner Gilliland stated there is also the Technical Review Committee (TRC)...don't forget about staff and TRC. Commissioner White stated that if we are going to do this we need to make sure things can be done administratively. They need to be clear and they need to be simple and clear enough that staff can administer. If someone wants to tear down an entire block, then yes we need board intervention. The day to day stuff of colors and signs needs to be done by staff. If we have these things she would feel confident to support doing that portion Surfside. Mayor Henry clarified that she feels it wouldn't encumber the investor. Commissioner White stated yes, that if someone buys a property in there and they have basic design guidelines to follow...its like buying into a new subdivision. Many people like living in a community where they have basic guidelines. This will provide some basic predictability for someone willing to invest. Mr. Chisholm stated the yellow area that has been suggested, he doesn't see where that is going to create a real hardship with anything in the E-Zone. The basic concept of the E Zone was to provide framework that was easy and timely in going through the approval process. Not one that that takes six to nine months to get something approved. It gets back to design standards and giving back some authority to the administrative body instead of having it all go through the boards. The boards can establish their guidelines and that there are certain things they deal with, but the majority ofthe routine things should be handled by the staff. Mayor Henry stated that what he has been hearing is how he feels. We want to make things as simple and defined as possible. When you have definition, then you have clarity and people know what they can and can't do. It frightens people when they see three or four boards that they have to go through. 8

9 Commissioner Gilliland stated what if they split it in two and took the Main Street segment out so it is the cemetery to the river on the north side and then we don't put Bill Frances's old gas station in there and just make it the residential properties to the south. He thinks that would clean up the E-Zone conflict. That piece on the north, all but two properties are contributing. They would have to meet the design standards. To him it simplifies it. The other piece when we went through the Seabreeze process from beginning to end months later you had people asking what was going on and had people who didn't understand how it affected their property. He thinks it's important on the front end to educate the property owners and that it is neighborhood preservation. He honestly doesn't see Surfside Village changing whether it is an overlay or not. He is always hesitate to do something...that will hamper our ability...if Boot Hill suddenly went away...they're in the E-Zone overlay and have to deal with the Surfside standards...it gets a little muddy. Commissioner White stated that sounds reasonable and wondered if there was a reason that we wouldn't make all of Main Street the E-Zone guidelines. Mr. Walton stated they could address that in the E-Zone guidelines. The problem is if you include it in the local historical district, staffcan't do the final approval. Commissioner Woods stated they he did recommend in the report that certain buildings should be designated historic...like the Bank & Blues. Mr. Walton stated he didn't suggest designating them, he said they didn't need...that area didn't meet the compactness for a district, but we address them separately in the design guidelines. We have talked to some property owners and any property owner can individually request designation. Commissioner White stated she thinks Main Street should be E-Zone guidelines and not the overlay. Commissioner Gilliland stated except the cemetery. Commissioner Woods stated she didn't think anyone was going to build on the cemetery. Commissioner Gilliland stated you never know. Mayor Henry stated okay. Commissioner Lentz stated he wanted to add one thing having gone through a Historic Preservation it is really, really expensive. He wanted to make sure the guidelines were not created to increase the cost burden for anyone willing to go out and do the renovations to the historic structures. He should have listen to people who had done this in this past, but he thought he knew better and he didn't and it ended up costing him dearly. Ifit was something that clearly showed it was going to end up costing the people more money he could not support it after what he went through from personal experience. He did not want to create a guideline that was going to add additional cost for everyone. 9

10 Commissioner Gilliland stated that by definition that's exactly what the Commission was going to be doing. It's going to be more expensive to use, you're going to have to purchase moldings and things like that. That was one reason he wanted to make sure the property owners were aware ofthis and what it meant. Mrs. Drago stated with Brian's help they made sure that in the guidelines you can have a practical compliance which was still needed, but it was a practical application. Brian Fredley, Member, Historic Preservation Board stated it went even further with new construction. With new construction you had more of a broad yet open choice of possibilities so that you can build something new that was contextual with the neighborhood. The guidelines he considered to be very loose compared to what was looked at for the Seabreeze district. Mrs. Drago stated the Board wanted the Commission to understand we heard what you were saying and we were looking for ways to avoid extraordinary expense yet still establishing character with the color shades ofthese beachside bungalows. Mr. Chisholm stated he was just following up on what he just heard and he asked if the vacant properties were going to have to meet some architectural guidelines that will be established by the Historic Preservation Board; is that correct. Mr. Fredley stated with your approval. Marie Hartman, City Attorney stated the guidelines are part of the zoning district so the Commission would have to adopt them with the Zoning ordinance. Mr. Chisholm asked if the guidelines were going to be completed when the overlays were done. Ms. Hartman stated yes, under the current... Mr. Chisholm asked Ms. Hartman; if we currently have a commercial building in the Historic district and somebody wants to renovate that building even though it may not be historic and it may not be a contributing structure are they going to have to meet the historic guidelines. Mr. Fredley stated no, those would be exempt. If it's categorized as non-contributing they would not have to comply with extra guidelines. Ifit were a brand new commercial building being constructed on that property, they would have to meet the guidelines. Mr. Chisholm stated he also thought he heard them say, the Historic Board would have to be the body eventually approving the guidelines on new constructions. So basically you setup the guidelines and the Commission administers them through their board is what you're saymg. 10

11 Commissioner Lentz asked regarding raising existing structures either contributing or noncontributing, clearly there are going to be some properties beyond the point ofno return and it's going to be cost prohibited to renovate them, so at some point they might need to be raised, he asked where does the City do as far as that scenario. Mr. Chisholm responded ifit's a non-contributing structure and we tear it down, the question is does the rebuild have to comply with the historic guidelines in order to rebuild. Mr. Fredley responded a non-contributing structure can be tom down, but when you start to rebuild, it must comply with the guidelines. With a contributing structure you can't tear it down until you have a certificate ofappropriateness or that it was in compliance. Mayor HeillY asked; if what they were saying was a rebuild not going to cost a person more money to construct a structure on the same property, than it would if they built someplace else. Mr. Chisholm responded they would have more of a review. Mr. Fredley stated it's a guide for creating good neighborhoods. This is not an economic drain; it's a good thing to have not just the contributing structures but the non-contributing structures being rebuilt in the neighborhoods. Commissioner Gilliland stated if you look at the structures in that area they are not over the top architectural. What it does do is, it protects the neighborhood from someone coming in trying to build as cheap as they could possibly build. Commissioner White commented that because of where it's located we are sinking a lot of money into it, and other people are missing a lot ofmoney. As Brian said we want all ofthe neighborhoods to be great, this one right now is important because where a lot of our investments are going and a lot of our tax base are right there on the beach. The review process concerns her and she wanted to make sure when the Commission approves this after going through those four boards so she wanted to be very thoughtful about the process. Mr. Chisholm stated ifwe are going to designate this area you have to be really careful on all the elements that are going to be used to provide the framework for design and they are going to have to approve it. He didn't know what flexibility you could place in the approval process so that would be something the Commission would have to really take a look at. Mrs. Drago stated that was the reason they initially met with the Main Street Board when we went back with the design just to make sure there were no conflicts. The only thing they found they had a gap on was something to do with the sign and Main Street Board was more restrictive than we were. By the time someone gets ready to go for their review it should be set clearly they have met and complied with the guidelines. Commissioner Gilliland stated if the overlay wasn't cutout that would be five stops and we are not going from five stops to one. 11

12 Commissioner White commented that with the right stuff in place... Commissioner Woods stated don't get hung-up; it's not everything that's going to have to go, it would only be certain items that would have to go. Mayor Henry suggested the Commission move towards some sort of conclusion and definition ofwhat we have to do next to make some decisions. Commissioner Gilliland asked if the board would agree to split it into two and leave Main Street out. Mayor Henry stated he didn't think anyone would be opposed to that suggestion. asked the Commission for a consensus that no one was opposed to the suggestion. He then Commissioner Woods stated we would take that little yellow block out and Main Street will be the E-Zone and leave in the remaining wording. Mr. Chisholm asked ifthey would be leaving the cemetery and everything else on the north, taking out where you have those two structures where the gas stations are and go to the next page where the vacant lot line is to the right. Commissioner Woods commented where it green is showing on the page you can go all the way up to the green and yellow. Commissioner Gilliland stated that the City had an opportunity to buffer non residential. Mayor Henry asked ifthere were additional closing comments. Commissioner White stated that she supports the designation if it comes with design guidelines; she does not support local designations with no guidelines; there are some local districts without guidelines. Marie Hartman stated the districts preceded the current iteration of the ordinance. required now. It is Commissioner Woods stated that the information was in the Commission's back up. Mr. Chisholm stated that we need to read what is in the guidelines before it is voted upon. Commissioner White stated if there is a way to think a little harder about this stuff with the boards. Mr. Chisholm stated how you reduce the number of stops before the different boards. Commissioner Gilliland stated that he totally agrees. 12

13 Commissioner White stated that it is a difficult process. Mr. Chisholm asked ifyou could build it into the process. Commissioner White stated she know that it cannot be done right now. Commissioner Woods asked if there is a way for the boards to meet at the same time; Historic Preservation and Main Street; she does not know the legality ofthe idea. Marie Hartman, City Attorney stated so that the presentation can be done at the same time. Commissioner Woods stated so the issue is covered during the board meeting; that should be a way to do that. Mr. Chisholm stated that they could build the review into the process in order to reduce the time. Commissioner Gilliland stated the only part that he would like to add is the residents need to be surveyed in order to insure that they understand what is being contemplated; they understand what the cost and benefits are. This designation will have cost; there is a way to try and minimize that increase. This isn't something where there are pots ofmoney out there that they could go after to renovate their houses. There are public barriers and restrictions that they will run across and he wants to make sure that everyone is aware. That is one of the things that slowed down the process for the Seabreeze district because there was a lack of understanding ofthe actual cost and benefits. Mr. Chisholm stated if we are consistent with what has been discussed on the two separate areas; staff will make the changes and then they will schedule meetings within the two areas to go over what is proposed and then bring it back to the Commission for action. Mayor Henry stated that sounds good to him. Commissioner Woods stated having been through it with the Seabreeze district and with other things like the traffic calmers; you can do as many public meetings that you want; you can mail as many notices as you want; they mailed notices to every property owner in the neighborhood when the traffic calmers were installed and I will tell you...she wrote is Frank's newsletter for a year telling people about the calmers; it was posted in the 7-eleven; when the calmers were installed she had many people to say that they never knew about the calmers. She wants the Commission to be aware; just like with historic preservation, they had meetings to talk about the district and at the last meeting they had people show up and say they had no idea. They don't worry about the issue until you are ready to do it or vote on it. It is going to be the reality. She suggested that the Commissioners should go to the City of Lakeland, Florida, Historic Preservation web site and look up the Dixie Land Neighborhood; the area is very similar to what we are talking about. She grew up in the neighborhood doing a lot ofoh my god; ifyou go through the neighborhood now it is an area that is not a high income neighborhood that has really had a comeback with historic 13

14 preservation. The neighborhood does not have to be high end to end up being a whole neighborhood. Mayor Henry stated that he hopes that the idea is right and the City ends up with a great neighborhood in Surfside. The area has potential but it is far from where any of us would like to see the area. He asked ifthere were additional comments. 4. Closing remarks No comments. 5. ADJOURNMENT There being no further discussion or comments the meeting was adjourned at 5:12 p.m. ~., ERRlCKL. Mayor ATTEST: ~~q~ JENNIFE:rHOMAS City Clerk Adopted: September 18, 2013 RECORD REQUIRED TO APPEAL: In accordance with Florida Statute if you should decide to appeal any decision the City Commission makes about any matter at this meeting, you will need a record of the proceedings. You are responsible for providing this record. You may hire a court reporter to make a verbatim transcript, or you may buy a tape of the meeting for $2.00 at the City Clerk's office. Copies oftapes are only made upon request. The City is not responsible for any mechanical failure ofthe recording equipment. 14