1. Welcome. Minutes. Signs Workshop. The City of Daytona Beach, Florida. Wednesday, February 04, 2015

Transcription

1 Minutes Signs Workshop The City of Daytona Beach, Florida Wednesday, February 04, 2015 Minutes of the Signs Workshop/City Commission of The City of Daytona Beach, Florida, held on Wednesday, February 4, 2015 at 4:30 p.m., City Hall, conference room 149B, 301 S. Ridgewood Avenue, Daytona Beach, Florida. Attendance. Also Present: Commissioner Ruth Trager Present Commissioner Pamela Woods Present Commissioner Kelly White Absent Commissioner Robert A. Gilliland Present Commissioner Patrick J. Henry Present Commissioner Paula R. Reed Present Mayor Derrick L. Henry Present James V. Chisholm, City Manager Marie Hartman, City Attorney Jennifer L. Thomas, City Clerk 1. Welcome Mayor Henry opened the meeting by welcoming everyone to the Signs Workshop this 4th day of February He turned the workshop over to the City Manager, James V. Chisholm who would frame the discussion. 2. James V. Chisholm, City Manager stated the City has three issues that the Commission would like to discuss that are listed in the summary. Campaigns signs, electronic message centers and banners are the areas for discussion. The City Commission has been provided some of the Ordinances that pertain to the topics and Rich Walton, Planning Director presented the information for the workshop. 3. Rich Walton, Planning Director, stated the issue that has been of interest is the prohibition of campaign signs on city property. We may want to revisit this temporarily for election season and the polling places. His suggestion was to keep what we have and move it over, adopt it and address modifications. Commissioner Woods stated it's located under Campaign Signs on page 6-75 in our printed copy.

2 Mr. Walton stated on page III it states, "No signs shall be erected on public property or rights of way and most of these are public property". Roman numeral one, two and four have no issues specific to public property and early election or days of election; you could handle that differently than what the code says. Commissioner Gilliland stated he didn't think anybody is completely against a polling place allowing signs; it's where and to what extent. Commissioner Woods stated signs have always been at polling places during the day. Her concern was about clutter and leaving them out overnight in the medians and transportation or pedestrian traffic areas. In the past years it has become a free for all. Mr. Walton stated this was a typical sign requirement that prohibits campaign signs in right of ways but that's for the streets. We may want to stay with that but modify it for special events like elections. He doesn't know if they should change the code; we can do that by resolution 30 days before an election (referring to City property). We need to create some rules and ask for policy direction. Commissioner Trager stated designated polling places should have campaign signs and taking them in at night and putting them back during the day is fine. Commissioner Reed stated her campaign signs were taken in at night and put back out in the morning; was this the rule. Commissioner Woods stated it wasn't a rule. Commissioner Gilliland stated for clarification, we are changing the ten words that actually describes what we are allowing. Commissioner Trager stated she didn't think the intent was to disallow it like the parkages at City Island. Commissioner Gilliland stated it's reasonable for us to define where... right now we have Schnebly Center, Dickerson Center and City Island. Commissioner Woods stated we do not have early voting at Schnebly, but, we do at the library; public properties that axe polling places is what needs to be addressed during the hours of elections. Commissioner Gilliland stated "hours of election" means during the day that the polling is conducted. Commissioner Woods stated you would be able to have your signs there during the hours they are open for polling; this would probably be the best way to set it up. 2

3 Commissioner Gilliland stated maybe an hour before or after or two hours before or two hours after. Commissioner Reed stated that would be so they could have time to set up before polls open and after they close. Commissioner Woods asked if they would do it by resolution or would you put it in here. Marie Hartman, City Attorney stated since the code currently states it is an absolute prohibition for signs on public property, it would require a change. She asked if there would be any other regulations on how they are placed there. Commissioner Gilliland stated we put together some maps for City Island that indicated the designated areas where people could put the signs and we need to do that. Commissioner Trager stated she thinks the parkages should be allowed and there are different parkages that are not really rights of way as they mean it on a highway. Commissioner Gilliland asked if she was referring to the little islands in the parking lot. Commissioner Trager stated yes. She does not see anything wrong with that during designated voting times only or an hour before and an hour after. Commissioner Woods stated showing the locations of the tents on the maps was a good idea. It's important that people who want to go vote at the library feel like they can get there without it being crazy. She asked how our contract with the County is handled. Mr. Chisholm stated currently the contract says we have to provide so many parking spots for the library and we cannot take them away. Ms. Hartman stated the County only controls the building. Commissioner Trager stated the canopies should be allowed in the parking lot due to the heat in August. Commissioner Gilliland asked about the grassy area because for every tent you put up, some senior citizen will have to park farther away and walk because that parking spot is no longer available. Commissioner Trager stated not all candidates put up canopies. Commissioner Reed asked what if we have designated spaces for those going to the library. 3

4 Commissioner Woods stated if you designate the parking spaces closest to library for library parking only, then the candidates can go further out. They can go in with their canopies and use them but you can't park; the parking is for the library patrons and the voting public. Commissioner Reed stated there are about five or six rows, so, maybe we can designate so many of the first spaces in every row. Mayor Henry stated not in front of the library but straight across all the way across the parking lot. Commissioner Reed stated her suggestion of marking off the first 10 spaces on every row so they would be closest to the library. Mayor Henry stated he didn't think it needed to be 10. Commissioner Gilliland stated it would be for library parking. Commissioner Reed stated yes and maybe it could be the first five on every row. Commissioner Woods stated whatever we decide we need to make sure its gets sent to all candidates so they will know before they come out there. Commissioner Reed stated we could mark it. Commissioner Woods stated send them the rules and map. Commissioner Trager stated when they get their kit. Commissioner Gilliland stated when they pay their $250 bond they will get a copy of this. He asked about the parking at Schnebly and Dickerson Centers on election day. Mayor Henry stated they do not use the facility for normal activities at the Schnebly Center. Commissioner Woods stated most people are out as people are driving in at Schnebly. The signs and the voter hustle tends to be closer to the street but if we felt like we need to do it at public sites we can certainly look at it. Dickerson seems to be more of a problem than Schnebly. Jennifer L. Thomas, City Clerk, stated Dickerson is busier but it hasn't been a problem. Mr. Chisholm stated that they are not in the parking area. Commissioner Gilliland stated if you said the tents are not allowed in the parking area, and only the grassy area, that would address all three facilities. 4

5 Commissioner Trager stated it is a limited area and does not want to see candidates fight over spots in the grassy areas, She has concerns about the volunteers and the heat, especially the seniors. Commissioner Reed stated she had the only canopy at Dickerson in Ms. Hartman asked the City Clerk if the public places that are used for polling are only City owned facilities or are there others. Commissioner Gilliland stated there were some minor churches. Ms. Hartman stated that's not publicly owned, like county or... Mrs. Thomas stated the Dickerson and Schnebly Centers are in our City and then there's the library. Ms. Hartman stated the library is the County's but the public parking area is the City's. Mrs. Thomas stated we used to be here at City Hall and Public Works but those precincts have been combined with other ones. Ms. Hartman asked if they have used any State owned, County owned or other government owned facilities. Mrs. Thomas stated no. Ms. Hartman asked the Commission if they were opting for the prohibition of putting campaign signs on public property except on election days an hour before it opens up to an hour after it closes and approve regulations for the areas for placement of the signs. Mr. Chisholm stated his suggestion was to place signs as you come around the corner of Magnolia and the parking lot. It is public property and you're not depriving anybody of anything and normally when you get down to the end of Magnolia there's a bunch of signs there. As you get into the parking area you don't have a large area of grass in the parking lot itself, just the islands. We should reserve the first five spaces all the way across and probably will not have an adverse impact. If you put the signs in the island areas, what are you going to do with the tents; are they going to be in the parking area or the island. Mayor Henry stated the tents are never in the islands only in the parking area. Mr. Chisholm stated when they put the tents in the parking area, they're going to put their signs in the parking area too. Mayor Henry stated their signs are just a part of their tent. 5

6 Mr. Chisholm stated we need to say that because there are all kinds of different signs. Commissioner Reed stated restrict it to that area within that tent space allocation. Mr. Chisholm stated signs must be contained within the tent. Mayor Henry stated it's still okay to put a sign in the grass. Commissioner Henry asked how about the vehicles. Commissioner Reed stated by reserving five spaces on every row it will more than accommodating for the accessibility to the library and the rest of the parking lot we can utilize for campaigning. Mayor Henry stated he thought three per row was enough. Commissioner Gilliland stated he thought 10 would be. Commissioner Woods stated she thought five would be good but before the decision is made she would like to look at how many that would be altogether. Commissioner Gilliland stated last campaign his parents early voted and they ended up back at Magnolia Avenue because 25 spots were taken up by campaigns. Commissioner Henry stated let's agree to five. Commissioner Reed asked if he meant the first five of every row. Commissioner Gilliland asked if they restrict the parking and not allow it in the parking lots of the Schnebly and Dickerson Centers. Commissioner Trager stated she was not aware of any problems at the two centers. Commissioner Woods stated we're not having any problems at Schnebly; they don't do early voting there. Commissioner Reed commented early voting is where majority of the problems are. Mr. Chisholm stated we will give you a map of each site to show where parking and signs are allowed and where the reserved parking is. Commissioner Gilliland stated the purpose of this change will be to not erect the signs on public property or the right-of-ways with the exception of election day and one hour before and one hour after the polling place closes. The locations will be adopted by resolution and signature. 6

7 Mr. Chisholm stated it still will say you cannot put them in the right-of-way. He was not talking about the sites but about all over town. Ms. Hartman stated this is an exception only for the polling places and election day. Commissioner Gilliland stated the Commission will adopt the resolution identifying where they can be allowed. This is where you get on the other side of the bridge near Beach Street, could be a designated place to have signs. Commissioner Trager asked if this included every date during early voting. Commissioner Woods asked if Commissioner Gilliland meant on the other side of the bridge and not on Beach Street. Commissioner Gilliland stated people can put signs between Beach Street and the bridge as you're coming onto Magnolia Avenue but before you cross the bridge and get into the parking lot. Ms. Hartman stated that's actually within the park. Commissioner Gilliland stated yes but it's in the public right-of-way and can be included in map. Commissioner Trager asked that would be during early voting only. Commissioner Reed stated we're primarily talking about local voting, will any of this affect any voting that happens County wide or State wide. Commissioner Woods stated yes, it's a polling place for everything. Commissioner Gilliland asked shouldn't code be picking up the campaign signs of the candidates that have not paid their sign bond. Mr. Walton stated except if it's qualified registered voter or petition items. Mr. Chisholm stated they have to have the proper permits and we can do that already. We will not have to change anything for that. This is for people who are going through the process of getting registered for their permits. His notes today have reflected that the political signs allowed on City properties at polling places during the voting hours and for one hour before and one hour after polling. Tents are allowed but signs must be contained in the tent and designated areas will be provided and approved by the City Commission. Commissioner Reed asked if signage can be on and in the tent. Mr. Chisholm stated yes in and on the tent. 7

8 Mr. Walton asked that will require them to have a tent. Commissioner Gilliland stated for public property or right of way. Mr. Walton stated we don't want to require them to have a tent. Commissioner Woods stated no we don't, but if they have just a table it would still be their area. Mr. Chisholm stated they can still do signs in the grassy areas and we're going to designate those areas. Commissioner Gilliland stated you're leaving number three the way it is and just expanding it so that no signs shall be erected on public property or right-of-way except on the day of elections at the designated polling places one hour before and after. Ms. Hartman stated she was confused that the manager said signs would only be permitted within the tents. Mr. Chisholm stated the designated areas will be determined by the City Commission for signage within the public areas and will be indicated on a map. Commissioner Gilliland stated somewhere else we're going to add the prohibition from tents in the parking lot on election day and the first five spaces. Mr. Chisholm stated yes there will be a reserved area for parking only in the first five spaces across. Commissioner Woods asked for clarification regarding the banner pole signs. If they are prohibited she would like to change the language to allow them. Mr. Walton stated they are prohibited. Another way to address the issue would be to categorize them as a temporary sign for special events and/or allow them only three times a year. Currently it is permissible to have a temporary sign for such events as grand openings but only for a short time and are not allowed to keep them up as a permanent basis. Commissioner Woods stated she sees these types of signs everywhere up all the time. Commissioner Henry asked for an explanation of item "I." Mr. Walton stated when a person has a vehicle clearly designed to advertise a business and it is parked next to a right of way permanently, this is prohibited. La Bosco's Jewelry and Pawn has a vehicle doing this kind of advertising. Mr. Chisholm stated there's another at the intersection of International Speedway Boulevard (ISB) and Ridgewood Avenue (US I). 8

9 Commissioner Gilliland stated that is from Attorney Thomas Mott. Mr. Walton stated most city codes have that prohibition for habitual people skirting around the ordinance. Mr. Chisholm stated it is prohibited. Mr. Walton stated enforcing it can be difficult. Hector Garcia, Code Enforcement Compliance Officer, stated sometimes the offender will say they have permission to park the vehicle there from the property owner. As for the ISB and US 1 vehicle, trying to get word from the Shell Corporation that owns that land is extremely difficult. We cite the property owner but this does not eliminate the person parking the vehicle there. Commissioner Woods stated it still comes back to it being a code violation. Mr. Chisholm stated a decision will need to be made to either leave the prohibition in and if we do then enforcement is another issue. We should cite the property no matter who it is and let them produce the proof that they allowed the person to park there. Commissioner Henry stated he uses his truck and places a campaign sign in the bed of it and parks it wherever he goes. He asked if he was breaking the code. Commissioner Gilliland stated the primary purpose of your vehicle is not for advertising. Ms. Hartman stated we do recognize that having signs on a vehicle you are actively driving is fine. Our issue is about operable or inoperable vehicles permanently parked somewhere and used as an advertising sign. Commissioner Woods stated people can put campaign signs on trucks and cars. Mr. Chisholm stated if a vehicle is inoperable, you need to say that in the code. Ms. Hartman stated some of them are inoperable, others are moved around, parked in different places and not used as primary transportation. Mr. Chisholm stated Mr. Molt's vehicle comes and goes. Mr. Garcia offered the suggestion of placing a time frame on the parking issue. Commissioner Woods asked if they should tighten the ordinance up. Ms. Hartman stated to Commission Woods comment that she means as in a parking restriction and that you cannot keep a vehicle parked in a spot overnight used as advertising. 9

10 Mr. Garcia stated the flip side to that is a company vehicle with an advertising wrap on it being parked in front of their own business. In his opinion, this is not a violation because they have a business there. Mayor Henry stated a vehicle wrap is different than a vehicle with a sign protruding from it. Mr. Garcia stated Mr. Mott's vehicle does not have a wrap per say but lettering as advertisement on the vehicle itself and the windows. We have to ask ourselves if this is considered a sign. There needs to be some clarification. Ms. Hartman stated the intention was not to stop people from wrapping cars; it's a common thing today. We want to try to prevent the people that are trying to get around the sign code by putting a vehicle in another place and not moving it. Mr. Chisholm stated it is the same thing though. Ms. Hartman stated you cannot prohibit people from putting signs on their cars. Mr. Chisholm asked if they should take this part out. It leaves it almost unenforceable unless we put the inoperable verbiage in. Mr. Walton suggested they should put a time frame on how long they can be parked in a location. Mr. Chisholm stated we may have problems with that. He's not going to know if it has been parked there for hours. Mr. Garcia stated we could tag the vehicle and photograph it with a time stamp. Periodically, we can return to the vehicle and take more photos. Mr. Chisholm stated it is very difficult to enforce this situation to be honest. Ms. Hartman stated it is not difficult to enforce it when it is the vehicle clearly is never moved whether it operates or not and is there 24 hours a day for three months straight. You can go out and cite the person and win that case. Commissioner Gilliland stated as the code stands right now, it's also outlawing all the people who place the replica race cars in different areas because they are purely for the sake of advertising. Mr. Garcia stated the Dollar General store uses their inoperable race car for promotional advertising in different locations. Commissioner Henry stated as he understands this now; should we do away with it. 10

11 Commissioner Woods stated what Ms. Hartman is talking about is the inoperable vehicles that don't move anywhere else. Ms. Hartman stated she does not see a problem with the way the provision's written now. Commissioner Woods asked who decides to enforce it. Ms. Hartman stated Code Enforcement will and has access to attorneys to advise them the legalities of the problem. The issue is complaint driven and code has to be clear on enforcement. Mr. Chisholm stated you need to be better define the Ordinance. Commissioner Woods asked if they can add the word inoperable. We should clean up the language now. She would like to see the Code Enforcement Department enforce what we have on the books and this issue may not be something we want them to deal with. Mr. Chisholm stated then you could not have a race car out there. Commissioner Reed asked how long this problem has been going on. Mayor Henry stated this has been a problem before and what is being said may solve some of the problem. Commissioner Reed stated we can change the verbiage to include the special event vehicles to not be in violation when they are on display. Mr. Chisholm stated we should say what we mean with the language. Commissioner Woods stated it does need tightening because we say we are complaint driven. Mayor Henry stated you could make certain exceptions. Mr. Walton stated the consensus is to leave it prohibited but we will clean up the language and bring it back to you. Commissioner Woods stated she agreed with the inoperable verbiage being added. Commissioner Reed stated she has seen businesses with this type of signage and have been opened for years. Commissioner Gilliland stated the point Commissioner Woods was trying to make was that they are not allowed now except with the exceptions on page 74. Commissioner Woods asked the Commission what they really wanted to do. 11

12 Commissioner Gilliland stated he did not want to mess with it because he had not heard one single complaint about this and has been this way for many, many years. He felt this advertising was being over governed. Commissioner Woods stated she had people complain to her saying if the City was not going to enforce it, we need to take out the clause. Mr. Chisholm stated we have the Code that states you can't have political signs in polling places especially on public property. If the Commission does not want us to enforce it, basically what you're saying is you don't want it regulated either. That's a choice only the Commission can make. You cannot enforce a complaint on one place when there are ten others out there doing the same thing, yet they are not being bothered. That puts our guys that are out serving the citation for the complaint in a really place. Commissioner Woods stated the biggest complaints she gets is the City is not consistent. She would like to see the City be consistent by making sure our rules are the rules that we care about and we want people to follow them; if we don't then we need to revise the rules. Mayor Henry stated he did not want to change anything else and was okay with what they have on the books and enforcing them the way they are but if there was something that needed to be changed he wouldn't mind changing it. Commissioner Gilliland suggested they come up with stricter limitations rather than having more prohibitions. Commissioner Woods stated we could revise the special events signage regulations. Mr. Garcia stated when it comes to signs local businesses knows how to more or less manipulate the system. He gave the example of a car dealership at the Auto Mall will put up a 30 foot gorilla on a Friday night but come Monday morning it's already taken down. This type of signage happens all over the City and one of his officers could work the whole weekend just citing these types of violators. Commissioner Gilliland asked if the signs were so bad that they were damaging or affecting the community. Commissioner Woods stated she would like to see them set some priorities for Code Enforcement. Mayor Henry stated he didn't think things were as rampant as Commissioner Woods states them to be but he does not want to remove the rules. Mr. Garcia suggested to regulate it is to have them purchase a permit with the understanding they could only do it so many times per year; in other words charge them fee. 12

13 Commissioner Woods stated her issue with these types of signs is that it shows total disrespect. If you're going to have a rule, it needs to be enforced; if you're not going to enforce it, then why have the rule. Commissioner Trager stated there was a difference between Permit Signs and Temporary Signs. Commissioner Henry commented he was not agreeable to charging people money for sign permits. Commissioner Woods stated the fee would be for regulating and allowing it. Commissioner Henry stated society cannot regulate or enforce every rule, it can't be done. If we were to go through everything in this book and try to regulate it, it would be impossible. He has not heard anyone complaining about signs. Mayor Henry stated he did not want to do away with the policy and asked if there was anyone that wanted to do as Mr. Garcia suggested and charge them a permitting fee as an option. Commissioner Woods stated you can regulate it without charging a fee. You can have a rule that says you cannot do this without... then give them the perimeters. You are still prohibited unless you purchase a permit to do it. By doing this you can regulate the number of days and the size of the sign without charging a fee. You are actually taking away the prohibition and making it permissible; but you're controlling how they choose. Mayor Henry and Commissioner Reed both agreed with the suggestion by Commissioner Woods. Mayor Henry stated you've got to have a fee if you're going to be permitting it because there is a cost. Mr. Chisholm asked if that meant for Items E and F will come back to Staff with a proposed fee and permit perimeters. Commissioner Woods stated let's work with the businesses and try to get an ordinance that makes sense to them because they're going to do this stuff regardless. Ms. Hartman asked the Commission if the wording for Items E and F will read "signs will be allowed only as temporary signs". We can take section A and completely change it. Mr. Chisholm stated you would have to change the special events section also. Commissioner Gilliland stated he was not in favor of a temporary sign section and a special event section. 13

14 Mr. Walton stated section is 6-69 is the section for this next part about electronic message centers (EMCs). Commissioner Woods stated she concurs with Commissioner White that they keep up with the quality as the technology changes. We need to update to the best in industry standards. Mr. Chisholm stated it is more than just technology, but size and distance. Commissioner Woods stated they all ask for an exception. Mr. Chisholm stated it also has a lot to do with programming. Mr. Walton stated the brightness and distance is current with everyone else. The two biggest things they see is that they don't allow graphics and we only allow one background color. They receive a lot of variance requests on that. We could always modify the requirements. Commissioner Woods stated she wants them to maintain the standard that they can't be flashing. We need to keep a time limit on it. Commissioner Gilliland asked if they had a provision stating only that particular business with the sign can be the one doing the advertising. Mr. Walton stated yes, it has to be onsite. We do have an application going to the Planning Board for a request to allow the EMCs on billboards. Commissioner Gilliland stated a few years ago the arrangement was if we let you go EMC you had to take down three or four non-electronic ones. Mr. Walton stated the discussion at the Planning Board was if we allow it, there needs to be some trade-off. Commissioner Gilliland stated he does not have a problem with taking out the prohibition on graphics or the single background color. Commissioner Woods stated you have to trust that with graphics it is going to be tasteful because you can't control the content. Commissioner Gilliland stated it has to be related to their business at that site. Commissioner Woods stated the minute you allow graphics they can put anything they want on there. You can't regulate content. Commissioner Gilliland stated the solution would be to revise the code to put in the graphics and then take it away. Commissioner Woods stated then those who already had it, would still have it. 14

15 Ms. Hartman stated she would have to take a look at that. Commissioner Gilliland stated if we take that out and it became troublesome they could put it back in. Ms. Hartman stated she will need to study how it affects the value of the signs if we allow it and then take the graphics away later. Commissioner Woods stated let her look at it more. The other thing they could do is allow graphics for a year and if it works we could make it permanent and if there is a problem you could sunset it. Ms. Hartman doesn't know enough about the sign technology to know if there is a cost difference for a sign that can show graphics and one that doesn't. Mr. Chisholm stated it was probably a program issue. Mr. Walton stated it would probably affect multicolored backgrounds as well. Commissioner Woods reemphasized they need to research it. Ms. Hartman stated a disclaimer on permit wouldn't work in a land use context and was not sure it would work in a sign context without amortization clause. Commissioner Trager stated if it was a distasteful graphic, with the disclaimer to remove at any time, they wouldn't have to wait until a year or for it to sunset. Ms. Hartman stated you can't regulate what is in the graphic because you are getting into the content base...there is a court case that may have an impact on that rule. Commissioner Woods asked about billboards. Mr. Walton stated they are not allowed today. Commissioner Woods asked if they were trying to move this forward. Mr. Walton stated they are trying to submit an application now but it did not address swapping out signage. Commissioner Gilliland asked if the applicant knew they could not put graphics on them. Mr. Walton stated the applicant stated they did know this because it is prohibited. 15

16 4. ADJOURNMENT There being no further discussion or comments the meeting was adjourned at 5:40 p.m. DERRICK L. HENRY Mayor ATTEST: Adopted: April 1, 2015 RECORD REQUIRED TO APPEAL: In accordance with Florida Statute if you should decide to appeal any decision the City Commission makes about any matter at this meeting, you will need a record of the proceedings. You are responsible for providing this record. You may hire a court reporter to make a verbatim transcript, or you may buy a tape of the meeting for $2.00 at the City Clerk's office. Copies of tapes are only made upon request. The City is not responsible for any mechanical failure of the recording equipment. 16