VALUE ADJUSTMENT BOARD MIAMI-DADE COUNTY, FLORIDA MEETING OF APRIL 19, 2017

Transcription

1 VALUE ADJUSTMENT BOARD MIAMI-DADE COUNTY, FLORIDA MEETING OF APRIL, 0 AGENDA 0 STEPHEN P. CLARK CENTER COMMISSION CHAMBERS CONFERENCE ROOM, ND FLOOR NW st Street Miami, Florida Wednesday April, 0 0:00 A.M. 0 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

2 0 BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT: COMMISSIONER JOSÉ "Pepe" DIAZ, Chairman COMMISSIONER DANIELLA LEVINE CAVA DR. MARTA PEREZ MR. HANI JARDACK MR. ANIBAL DUARTE-VIERA ALSO PRESENT: ROBERT ALFARO, VAB Manager MARK A. MARTINEZ, Senior Deputy Clerk, Clerk of Courts PEDRO J. GARCIA, Property Appraiser LAZARO SOLIS, Deputy Property Appraiser JORGE MARTINEZ-ESTEVE, ESQ, Assistant County Attorney RAFAEL MILLARES, ESQ., VAB Board Legal Counsel JOHN GUTIERREZ, Purchasing Manager of the Clerk of Courts 0 ITEM I N D E X PAGE I. Elect a new chairperson for the VAB pursuant to F.S..0 II. Discussion of new VAB computer system, III. Such other business as may properly come before the Board 0,

3 0 0 (Thereupon, the following proceedings were had:) COMMISSIONER DIAZ: Welcome to the VAB meeting. The time is approximately 0:0, and it's April th 0. The first item is -- first of all, let's go around the room and say hi to everybody before we actually start, and see who is here at the table, because I have very great people that are here now. BOARD MEMBER LEVINE CAVA: Thank you so much. COMMISSIONER DIAZ: I have two dear friends that are here, and we have a new day of the VAB. We have some that have been here a while that, you know, it's all good. So let's start off with you. BOARD MEMBER LEVINE CAVA: Thank you, Mr. Chair, Mr. Commissioner. I'm Daniella Levine Cava, County Commissioner of District. I'm very honored to be serving, and this is my first meeting.

4 0 0 BOARD MEMBER PEREZ: I'm Martha Perez from the School Board, and this is my first meeting as well. MR. GARCIA: I'm Pedro Garcia, Miami-Dade County Property Appraiser, and this is not my first meeting. BOARD MEMBER LEVINE CAVA: They say, "Not my first Rodeo." MR. SOLIS: Good morning. Lazaro Solis, Deputy Property Appraiser. MR. MARTINEZ: Good morning. Mark Martinez, Senior Deputy Clerk, Clerk of Courts. MR. ALFARO: Robert Alfaro, Value Adjustment Board manager. MR. MILLARES: Rafael Millares, Value Adjustment Board legal counsel. COMMISSIONER DIAZ: Rafael is the new attorney that was put in recently. And this is your first official meeting, right or second? MR. MILLARES: Second. COMMISSIONER DIAZ: You're second Official Meeting, sorry.

5 0 0 BOARD MEMBER JARDACK: I'm Hani Jardack, Board Member, appointed by the School Board. COMMISSIONER DIAZ: Not his first rodeo either. And I'm Jose "Pepe" Diaz, County Commissioner, and we've been doing this for two years. I'm very proud that there's been a lot of changes in the VAB since we first started. It seemed that it was like two different things together. There were was a lot of problems, a lot of issues. And this is just to catch up. We were delayed on a lot of the issues, the notices and so on. And we've worked very hard -- well, we didn't do it. They did a lot of hard work. And today they're caught up, and things are moving forward very well. So I wanted to congratulate you and your team for the outstanding work that you guys have done. MR. ALFARO: Thank you. COMMISSIONER DIAZ: Pedro, I think you could add to that.

6 0 0 MR. GARCIA: We have to say thank you also to the agents. They've been very helpful, and they've been helping us to make the right time for the Value Adjustment Board. COMMISSIONER DIAZ: Absolutely. I agree with that. It takes a village. So with that said, I think we have the first item of business. Mr. Attorney? MR. MILLARES: Yes. So I'm going to officially declare a quorum. Obviously we've done introductions already. So the first order is to elect the new chairperson. The way this is going to work is Dr. Marta Perez or Ms. Levine Cava, if you could do a motion nominating someone as the chair? BOARD MEMBER PEREZ: I nominate Commissioner Jose "Pepe" Diaz. BOARD MEMBER LEVINE CAVA: And I will second that nomination. COMMISSIONER DIAZ: Thank you. MR. MILLARES: So Commissioner Diaz

7 0 0 is now the Chair of the Value Adjustment Board. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: While we're here, let's record one more vote. (Thereupon, Board Member Anibal Duarte-Viera enters the meeting already in progress, after which the following transpired:) BOARD MEMBER DUARTE-VIERA: I feel like Raquel Regalado -- sorry. That's an inside joke. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: What he means by that, she was always late. So guys, that's what he means by that. Welcome, sir. MR. MILLARES: Welcome. So can you just introduce yourself now that you're here. BOARD MEMBER DUARTE-VIERA: Anibal Duarte-Viera, Citizen Member. MR. MILLARES: Fantastic. BOARD MEMBER DUARTE-VIERA: Okay. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: So, Mr. Attorney, take us to the next item. MR. MILLARES: Okay. So the next

8 0 0 item is discussion about the new VAB computer system. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: Thank you guys. MR. MILLARES: So very briefly, the computer system that the VAB currently uses is an extremely old, MS-DOS based database. Just to give you some timeframe, when I was at the State Attorney's Office when I started back in 00, I used the same system. So it has not changed. And, obviously, we're in desperate need of a new Window's based much more efficient, much more robust system. So this process started before my time here. There has been extensive research done by the Miami-Dade Clerk's Office Procurement Department. So they've done a lot of good research, and basically concluded that there are three vendors who could handle a job this size and this magnitude. Per the County procurement rules, they have reached out to those vendors. One of them, Thompson Reuters said

9 0 0 they don't have the bandwidth to do the project right now, because it would be a very big project for them. And the other one signalled that they were not interested. Which leaves one called Pioneer Technology Group, which has a system called Axia. Axia is in use in a variety of counties throughout Florida. And out of the options, it is the most plug and play. Meaning, it does handle Value Adjustment Board functions. It would need to be tweaked and customized for us, because Miami-Dade is so unique. We handle far more cases than any other counties. In fact, we handle -- we do more hearings than all the other counties combined. So some customization, obviously, will be would necessary. The reason this is put on the agenda is, I wanted to let the Value Adjustment Board know that legally, regarding state procurement procedures, I myself, and the rest of our team, we really don't have the expertise necessary to -- for me to feel

10 0 0 0 comfortable that we can direct the VAB and the procurement process through -- remember, it's a state procurement process that applies, and not the county because of the VAB's unique nature. So I just wanted to bring that up to see what the Value Adjustment Board members had to say about that. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: Where is the procurement person? MR. GUTIERREZ: (Indicating). CHAIRMAN DIAZ: Please, if you could -- and by the way, anybody that's part of the Board in the sense that's part of the workings -- how many here are part of the system? I know that you've worked on it. Who else? MR. ALFARO: My staff. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: Your staff is here. Just briefly introduce them. MR. AUSTIN: Scott Austin. MS. AREVALO: Celia Arevalo. MS. ESTIVEZ: Rosemarie Estivez. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: Okay. MR. GUTIERREZ: And John Gutierrez.

11 0 0 CHAIRMAN DIAZ: And John is the -- MR. GUTIERREZ: The Procurement Manager. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: -- the procurement manager. John, as our attorney have explained, we went through a long system for two years of researching and going through this. And one of the key things we want as members, and I want to be real clear, is that -- and they'll say it also. We wanted to get a system in sooner than later, because the monies are here. We don't know what happens next here. Things could change. We have an idiot that might launch some missiles. You know, things can happen. You know, and I'm sorry, that's just my expression. So I meant it. We're praying, everybody. So with that said, could you explain what's going on? Because I understand the attorney has to say this, and we have to go because we cannot really -- and this is a very frustrating thing for you guys to understand. We can't really mix county

12 0 0 with this Board even though we're kind of like mixed. We're independent here just thinking VAB. And VAB has a set of laws put in by the state that are very interesting. And we follow them with good guidance and wisdom. But at the same time there practical stuff. And the stuff is that this is tax payer's money at the end of the day that we want to make sure that we don't continue to spend. But please go ahead. MR. GUTIERREZ: Again, my name is John Gutierrez, the Purchasing Manager of the Clerk of Courts. What we've done thus far, we probably spent about 0 to 0 hours worth of market research, probably about eight full business days. We began in the State of Florida. We began searching, and we sent verbal questionnaires. We developed some questions to ask like the largest counties, because I wasn't interested -- I was interested in like, you know, the five largest.

13 0 0 So we went from county two through six, meaning like Orange County, Broward, you know, those larger counties. We wanted to find out what system, if any, they were using. The questions we asked were basic questions. You know, what software are you using? Are you happy with the software? How is the service and support of the software? Does it meet the state's requirements? All of them were using one software that's called Axia. As we did further research, we went -- and, you know, then I reached out to Axia. As it turns out, there's counties within the State of Florida using this software, and using this software successfully. The five largest counties that we spoke to, said, yeah, you know, they're doing good. They, you know, have a couple of hiccups here and there, but the service and support has been, you

14 0 0 know, very good. Everybody is basically satisfied with the system. So we went one step further. We decided to take it country-wide. We said, you know, let's see what's out there in the State of Texas, you know, California, Chicago, you know, some of the larger cities that we can reached out to. And as it turns out, there's nothing basically out there other than pieces of what we need. And based on that research, we found two other companies. One by the name of Tyler as was mentioned by Rafael, and also another one was called Thompson Reuters. Thompson Reuters and Tyler can produce a system like this, but they don't have a system in place. In other words, this system, Axia, has already tailored a system to the State of Florida's requirements for VAB. These other two companies could provide a system, but they basically have to develop one. And they are two very capable

15 0 0 companies. One of them, Tyler, for example, has developed an Odyssey system for us. They're capable companies, both of them. We sent out a request for information once we found the three vendors. The request for information basically had all of our functional requirements. Those functional requirements consisted of approximately 0 questions. Look, does your system do this, does it do this, does it provide requirements, you know. And the only company that responded was Axia, and probably percent of the 0 questions they satisfy. Which means that, you know, roughly percent of it would need to be customized to meet our needs. So at that point we said, well, this seems to be what Miami-Dade County would consider a non-competitive agreement because the other two responded back in writing and said, look, we can do it, but unfortunately, we're way overcommmitted and this project requires extensive

16 0 0 resources. So at that point, we were like, you know what, we have one person that can do this. So in the county -- the county would normally just go into negotiations with that one person via a non-competitive agreement. We would justify our position, show the market research, show the results of why we're doing what we're doing, and then proceed into negotiations. But now we're getting into the legal part, which is the state. So that's where, you know, we're kind of at now. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: I appreciate it John. We deal with stuff like this all the time and other levels that we also participate in. And the issue is that we want to make it the most practical, but yet legal situation that we could do. You have, based on what we required, and the past Board, to look at -- to find systems, to look at what is the most competitive, and which is the best system. So we have an antiquated system. Rafael

17 0 0 had said earlier that it's been, you know, from the 0's. And now we need to come into compliance with an awesome system. Now, the system, if it's been created for the VAB, you know, I think it's a pretty -- I think we've gone through a procurement process already. That's the way I look at it, because there are many levels of procurement processes. There are RFQ, RFI, RFP, and so on. And they're all acceptable in a system. But since we don't have the expertise, what happens is, and this is my opinion, you guys tell me if I'm wrong, then we have to go in and try to do another procurement for a law firm to do an analysis. That could take some time. Then other companies will say, when you open it up to the whole world, they'll say, well -- and this happens in our world a lot -- well, let's put groups together. And all of a sudden we'll have a bunch of people getting together to try to get a procurement going. And at the end of the day, we have to

18 0 0 do what's the best situation for the people of this county. And we have enough people that are having a hard time sometimes just making that annual payment for taxes. So we want to make sure that what we do here is legal, and at the same take practical and smart. If you are telling me there were three companies or four that do this exact same thing, then I would tell you, you know -- this is me talking. And you guys could feed in. At that point I would tell you, hey, let's go ahead and let's put it out as another process. But, two -- it's going to take awhile to first get the attorney group. And second, to analyze what's already been done. And three, then put it out through a different process to open it up. Which we'll probably get the same results, because we'll probably end up picking the most logical situation. And Pedro, I don't know if you know any of these systems or stuff, but I think

19 0 0 it's important -- and Lazaro -- MR. SOLIS: Yes. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: -- that you guys add your point of view, because then I'm going to ask my members here if they're any distinct pleasure that they have, but I am pretty much ready to go, if that's the case to save a lot of time. MR. SOLIS: Commissioner, if I may. When we were looking at our camera system many, many years ago, it's a small industry. Obviously, we were faced with a similar dilemma. You had large players, you had smaller players. We put out an extensive RFP. The whole process took us, I kid you not, about five years. If I'm understanding Mr. Millares correctly, it sounds like all the key players have been notified and been invited to participate in the solicitation. Two of the key players, or the largest have basically said they can't do it. So that really leaves you with one of the three. The others, if I'm

20 0 0 0 understanding correctly, don't have the capabilities or the expertise to do it. The only other option would be, which would probably further delay this process, is to try to contract with a vendor to develop something on behalf of the Value Adjustment Board. That may take even more time. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: And money. MR. SOLIS: It sounds like, based on the market research, your options are limited, and you may not have any choice other than to go with the existing vendor. Having been through this process multiple times, the key of the successful implementation will be in the negotiations, and how the system analysis and development is done. With any package, it doesn't matter how big or how small the vendor is, you're still getting a package. One of the things that the VAB Board and the users would probably need to come to terms with is that you have to live within that world.

21 0 0 We attempted with our system to force the system to do something that it was not designed to. And it has negative consequences. Again, that's just food for thought. Unlike a system that's developed in-house. So it sounds like, from what I'm hearing, your options are somewhat limited. And, if I'm understanding you correctly, Mr. Gutierrez, there's sufficient justification for the Board to take the appropriate action to go with a sole source. MR. GUTIERREZ: In this particular case, I'm personally convinced that if we went the long route, which is the RFP, put it out on the street, publically advertise it, we're still going to end up with the same developer. MR. SOLIS: Correct. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: And that's your expertise. MR. GUTIERREZ: Yes. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: Okay. MR. MILLARES: Can I just be heard

22 0 0 for one more minute? CHAIRMAN DIAZ: Yes. MR. MILLARES: We forgot to mention that there really is a fourth, which is our own Miami-Dade County IT Department. Right? MR. SOLIS: Yes. MR. MILLARES: They have the expertise to develop this program. MR. SOLIS: But that's a development effort. MR. GUTIERREZ: From scratch. MR. SOLIS: Right. It's not a package. MR. GUTIERREZ: By the way, we have gone to them. Go ahead, continue. MR. MILLARES: I just wanted to bring that up. And I agree that in the end, we probably would end up with the same vendors. I just have to raise a flag in my role as VAB counsel, that obviously, waiving the state's competitive bidding process may come with risks, but it's the

23 0 0 VAB's decision weather to do that or not. So I've raised the flag, raised the, you know, that caution, and -- COMMISSIONER DIAZ: Could you explain the risk? MR. MILLARES: Yes. So basically what happens if any government entity does not follow the State's competitive bidding/procurement process, a mom and mop or somebody could come and potentially file a lawsuit saying I was never given a chance. Now, obviously, our argument would be, we've done all the research. We've contacted everybody, and, you know, sorry mom and pop, you may not have the capability to do this. But that is the exposure. And, obviously, my role here is to limit exposure for the VAB, so -- CHAIRMAN DIAZ: Appreciate it. With that, you want to answer, then I'll open it up to the board members. MR. SOLIS: There may be another compromise which may fall within the same guidelines and still be an expedited

24 0 0 process. You could develop the specks, put the specks out, and put it as a bid. You know that you've already polled the market. You know you're going to get one taker. At that point you've complied with the State's competitive process. You only get one response back, which is Axia. And you've met the State requirements. At the same time, it's a more expedited process. It's much more expedited than an RFP process, which requires months. MR. MILLARES: And I'm sure you're right. But, unfortunately, since I lack -- humbly I say I lack the procurement -- the State procurement expertise. I wouldn't be able to help the VAB navigate those hoops and jump through to do that expedited process. MR. SOLIS: No, but I think Mr. Gutierrez is familiar with it. MR. GUTIERREZ: I'm familiar with the County. MR. MILLARES: The County. MR. GUTIERREZ: Not necessarily the State.

25 0 0 MR. SOLIS: If -- we have to go through it with ours too, because we're all considered a State agency. So as long as it's put competitively out, and people can bid, from what I have seen, the State's procurement process is not as strict as the County's. So if we follow basic County guidelines, cone of silent, putting it out, giving sufficient opportunity for the companies to submit their proposals, there's an evaluation. Obviously, if there's only one bid submitted, then that greatly expedites the process. If you have two, then you've opened it up, and it is competitive. No matter how you look at it, you're putting out a competitive process. It's just that within the competitive process world, you can put out a bid, or you can do an RFP. The RFP is a much longer protractive process. Where as the bid, you say, here are my specks, tell me what you've got, and you go with the lowest bidder at that point.

26 0 0 CHAIRMAN DIAZ: And it actually becomes that fundamental. In the third process, when the State has a procurement process, a county or a municipality could actually attach itself to that procurement process and take that vendor. MR. SOLIS: True. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: And that's another process that in my former capacity as a Mayor of a municipality, we did it all the time. So we saved a lot. We piggybacked on contracts that the State already went through a procurement process, and attached themselves to it. That would be my other recommendation. MR. GUTIERREZ: I have a contract in my in-box that I had Axia sent me that's a government contract. I only had a -- they sent it yesterday, so I had just a preliminary review of it. I'm not sure if it can be tailored to our specific needs. And I'll tell you why. That's because it goes based on

27 0 0 volume. And our volume is like, you know, by far, the largest in the State of Florida. And they said from I think it was 0 to 0 thousand cases, it costs "X" amount of money. But it didn't have other tiers, you know what I'm saying? So I don't know if -- I didn't see if they had an additional items clause in the contract. For example, that would allow us to modify that and say, well, what about from one million to one million, two hundred thousand cases, you know. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: Well, if I remember correctly, it is the process of the company to do that procurement. That is the important part, which is what I think Lazaro has attested to. And I know we're lacking expertise on the State side of this, but in my recollection, and I guess we can continue now. But it was simply the process. If the company did this, than you adjusted your portion. Whether it was at the time police cars. It was because FHP had a contract of police cars, but we -- the contract

28 0 0 that they had were between two and three different models, and we picked one of models. So that showed a difference. Did you understand? There was also the equipment, and other things that instead of me putting out cost of time effort and money, I just simply attached to the State and got, I believe, was the best bargain rate that I could. And then other things, of course. We bid, and we went to the RFP, RFQ, RFI, whichever are the ones that we would do. So with that, members, do you want to add to this? BOARD MEMBER LEVINE CAVA: Thank you, Mr. Chair. So I have been briefed about this beforehand. I think I wasn't quite aware of the potential legal challenge. It seems that you've presented some other options. Would it be appropriate to have this come back to another meeting. I don't know what the urgency of this is. It seems urgent. So what's the timeframe? Whether we should take the risk of just

29 0 0 going with this noncompetitive situation based on our research, or whether there's a more abbreviated bid process that can be utilized. I'm not the expert to advise. BOARD MEMBER JARDACK: I have a question. What would be the estimated cost for the new system? MR. GUTIERREZ: Well, approximately with the first year -- because you only have like a one-time fee for the license. With this company you don't have to pay like a renewal fee. They charge you -- CHAIRMAN DIAZ: There's no key every year or every so often? MR. GUTIERREZ: No. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: There's no key update, nothing? MR. GUTIERREZ: Yeah, well, 0 thousand dollars a year. The system is 0 thousand. That's without the tweaking. They only included I think like 00 hours worth of tweaking. It could be four or 00, we don't know. We have to sit down with them and see what's going

30 0 0 0 on. That was 0 thousand plus any additional tweaks. The other thing would be 0 thousand dollars a year for service and maintenance. Meaning that includes any updates. You have any problems, you pick up the phone, they resolve it. That's 0 thousand dollars every year. Which currently we're paying more than that for service with the County. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: Go ahead. BOARD MEMBER JARDACK: Just to followup on this, if you go through the rules of competitive bidding as they say, if you advertise our new package, our new specification publically and have maybe one vendor or two vendors, then you can avoid this issue of not having competitive bidding. I'm a contractor, so I have -- I know the process. If that is possible by putting your specification on the advertisement, let the other vendor compete with you. That's a suggestion. I don't know if that is what --

31 0 0 CHAIRMAN DIAZ: Okay. Marta? And I'm going to answer both of these. BOARD MEMBER PEREZ: I have a couple of actual points of order sort of. On the agenda it says discussion of the new VAB computer system. It doesn't say, you know, for us to approve. It just says discussion. Would it be okay if we, I mean, give direction? Or is this just a discussion? Are we adopting the Pioneer, or are we giving authority? Or, as my colleague has said, are we going to bring it back? Are we going to bring it back to another meeting having had this information? CHAIRMAN DIAZ: DIAZ: To answer -- I think to answer first, and then go his answer and to yours. The reason why it's put as discussion is because we wanted to state all the issues at hand, and the hard work that has been done up to now, and the limitation of time that it would take to jump off. So then at that point as a

32 0 0 discussion, we could take many routes. We could actually look into a procurement, as the attorney said. We could actually defer. We could actually go, as Lazaro said. We've a venue of options, and that's what I tried to say at the beginning. BOARD MEMBER PEREZ: And also on this page that we got the justification/input, these are points of order for me to understand how the Board works. It says proposed action -- under the proposed action, it doesn't really give us like a recommendation from the staff. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: We wanted to discuss it among us. So everything you're hearing is the recommendations. You know, we're gaining the recommendations in different -- since it's a sunshine issue, we want to -- BOARD MEMBER PEREZ: But the recommendation -- I think the issue is, do we go ahead and adopt Pioneer, or do we put it out competitively, less we get into some sort of problem. So I think, as a

33 0 0 Board, we can either -- in order to expedite the time. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: And that's a question -- exactly where you're going is a question I'm going to ask in a second. Anibal, do you want to jump in on something? BOARD MEMBER DUARTE-VIERA: You know what, I'm interested in what the property owner's representative have to say about the system. Do they have any experience with this particular system that they're discussing? MR. BECK: We believe the other counties are -- CHAIRMAN DIAZ: Could you state your name and address, please. MR. BECK: Oh, my name is Stan Beck with Property Tax Consultants. We work around the State with other counties. Our experience with those counties is fine, but what we've heard here for a couple of years is that Axia was not capable of handling the amount of volume in Dade County. And Mr. Alfaro has

34 0 0 looked into that in the past. So I have been of the understanding that Axia could not do it here. Now if they can, great. But I'm not able to comment on that one way or the other. MR. GUTIERREZ: Ten years ago when the product came out, they came and they presented the system. When they saw the volume of Miami-Dade County, they realized that really was something that they couldn't do at that time. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: At the time. MR. GUTIERREZ: Since then they have adjusted the system to other municipalities. In other words, tweaked it to fit other municipalities. And they've grown as far as their capabilities are concerned. And they are very confident that now they can meet whatever our needs are. MR. BECK: Can I just go on for one more -- CHAIRMAN DIAZ: No. Please, that's if you're addressed. MR. BECK: It's your call.

35 0 0 CHAIRMAN DIAZ: I know, but if you're addressed. This is a Board meeting, and I'm the Chair. If you're addressed, then please respond. But not like that. The issue that I have then, first and foremost, uncomfortably -- I don't want to rush something. Okay, that's one. Two, if this procurement process takes place, what is you're estimated time. We don't know, because we have to first then do a procurement on the group of attorneys that understand these types of procurements, and then go out and then seek that. That's going to take several months if we do that, because you have to open it up to everybody to do this. Then you've got to come back. We have to have a meeting. We get a date. Then we have to go out and put it out to every system after we do -- and based on -- wait. Let me go back. I missed a step. The attorneys have to analyze. And whoever we pick has to then analyze and tell us what we need to do. Then we have

36 0 0 to sit down and then do whatever it is, and put it out again. And from my understanding, how long -- judging, if I'm looking at our systems the way we do things, we're looking at a year. MR. GUTIERREZ: Yes. You're absolutely correct. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: Okay, a year. MR. GUTIERREZ: If we went the RFP route, it's approximately a year. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: A year to do this. Then Murphy's law will bring this into play that there's only one system out there, and we're where we first started today -- okay, that could handle it. So I'm just trying to be real practical, and try to put it on the table here. And then we have a cost of how much that we have to put up in this whole process of getting another law firm, doing everything, and putting it out, which that could go towards the system and save taxpayers money. So that's where I'm at. And I want to hear from you guys, because I don't

37 0 0 want to push something. But at the same time, I think we really have to analyze this now. We could do, what, as I explained, that we could put out an information -- I mean a bid on just the information that we have and say, produce this, and put it out. I think John wanted to give it 0 days -- 0 days and bring it back, and do it that route. You have all the information. You could put it out, or we actually do an executive decision. And I think legally we could do that too. Is that against our charter or who we are as a VAB Board to be able to do a decision like that? Because that will determine our actions. MR. MILLARES: All right. Unfortunately I don't know the answer to that, because I don't have the expertise. My gut is exactly what I said. It's one of those lawyer responses. It depends. It depends on how much exposure the VAB Members are willing to take. I completely understand that practically we're going to end up with the

38 0 0 same vendor. I understand that completely. Does the 0 days public bidding meet State requirements? Again, my response is, I don't know. Mr. Solis seems to have some sort of experience with this. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: No, he deals with it all the time. MR. SOLIS: Yes. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: And he is part of this Board. MR. SOLIS: There is a process that allows for sole source. And there are people in the State you could probably reach out to and make sure that we dot all our i's and cross our t's. The other question I have for Mr. Gutierrez was -- MR. MILLARES: Well, who would those people be exactly? MR. SOLIS: We can provide you with that. MR. MILLARES: Okay. So something for the VAB to consider authorizing me to

39 0 0 reach out to those folks -- MR. SOLIS: To the State. MR. MILLARES: -- and getting some sort of -- MR. SOLIS: Guidance. MR. MILLARES: Guidance/advice -- MR. SOLIS: Right. MR. MILLARES: -- regarding State procurement. MR. MARTINEZ: Yes, regarding Statute to see how they handle sole sourcing. MR. MILLARES: Correct. MR. SOLIS: Now, the way we've also followed this process when we've been faced with similar situations, is we look for -- and the question I want to ask you is, in your market research with the other county, I'm assuming that they had to follow some sort of competitive bidding process. So if, for instance, Broward or Palm Beach or whomever has this -- if the contract was competitively bid by them, we can attach ourselves to one of their contracts, the one that seems most

40 0 0 0 favorable. There's agencies, counties in this State that already have a contract with Axia. We can just attach ourselves to the one that best fits our needs without having to go out to the bid. BOARD MEMBER LEVINE CAVA: And that's not a year-long process. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: No. That's a simple process. That's actually a process that we could mandate and tell them to do. MR. GUTIERREZ: That's another option. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: Which were the counties just for us to understand that you guys looked at? Jacksonville? MR. GUTIERREZ: Broward, Palm Beach, Orange County, Citrus County, I believe. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: Did you do Jacksonville? MR. GUTIERREZ: Yes. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: Jacksonville is the largest next to us, right? MR. SOLIS: But in terms of volume, it's Dade, Broward, Palm Beach.

41 0 0 CHAIRMAN DIAZ: Oh, really? MR. SOLIS: Yes. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: Okay, thank you. Yes? BOARD MEMBER PEREZ: Are those counties, do they -- are they able to certify their tax rolls on time? MR. ALFARO: Well, I don't know -- when we looked at counties, we have, by far, the largest case load. And sometimes we even certify before they do. BOARD MEMBER PEREZ: So it doesn't really help then in terms of -- MR. ALFARO: I don't think it's the system. I don't think it's the computer system that's the problem. MR. SOLIS: I have some numbers. Dade has approximately thousand properties being petitioned. I believe Broward is in the neighborhood of about to, and Palm Beach is just above five thousand. And then it drops from there. The next biggest, I think, is Orange, which has about or hundred

42 0 0 petitions. Hillsborough I want to say they're about the four thousand range as well -- or three thousand. So it just drops dramatically. And I think what Mr. Millares was saying earlier is probably correct, which is the sum total of all the other counties is still less than our total. MR. MARTINEZ: I have all the counties from the 0. And if you add all the other counties, their number of petitions are close to thousand. We had over thousand. The biggest difference is, if you go into the number of hearings, out of those thousand in all the other counties, there are only,00 heard -- that actually got a hearing. And for us, out of that thousand, thousand hearings. BOARD MEMBER LEVINE CAVA: How much? MR. MARTINEZ: That's thousand. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: So you guys aren't busy at all, right? BOARD MEMBER LEVINE CAVA: They handle it very efficiently and

43 0 0 expeditiously from what I understand. MR. MARTINEZ: What we do in a day almost every week, they do in a whole year. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: Which is very interesting. In the last two years I didn't even know that. But that's good to know. MR. MILLARES: We don't have a choice but to be extremely efficient. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: So going back to this, before we make a decision, I didn't want to be rude to the gentlemen in the back. It's just that we have a process, and that process I always like to make sure we maintain that process. I wanted you to understand that we just don't open up to everybody coming up and stating something. But if you wanted to state something, I'll accept what you were going to say now. MR. BECK: Mr. Solis just made the point that I was going to make, which is that you can reach out to Broward or Palm Beach and see how they handled their

44 0 0 selection, but he did it for me. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: Thank you. So with that said and done, I think that, as Mr. Solis has stated, I think that would be probably the most practical way of doing it, attaching and looking at it. Because if you add -- if you add the six counties that we looked at here, they're still -- we're still 0 thousand apps more than them. Do five of them have the same system? MR. GUTIERREZ: Yes, Axia. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: So this is going to be a pretty easy thing. So with that said and done, then I believe to make sure that we do this properly, two methods. One, that we look at one of the counties procurement method that has already been existed, and then simply jump on top of that. And also accept that procurement as part of us. Look at the legalities, look at Section -- what was it? MR. GUTIERREZ: Section. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: Section. And to

45 0 0 make sure that we do things within the guidelines that, Mr. Millares, you could see as very acceptable at that point. So we go within the guidelines. Your apprehension of everything has been duly noted. I think that is more than acceptable. But I think that at the end of the day, based on your discussion, we're going to end up in the same place again. So if we want to put one more step instead of making a decisions today, I think that the one more step is to look at the other procurements that have been done in the other different Counties, and then find a way to attach ourselves to that procurement, and then go directly to that, if that's what's acceptable to everyone. BOARD MEMBER LEVINE CAVA: Yes. Mr. Chair, I agree with what you're saying. Can we offer some provisional approval? CHAIRMAN DIAZ: That's what I'm asking for.

46 0 0 BOARD MEMBER LEVINE CAVA: That's what you're -- okay. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: That's what I'm asking for at this point. BOARD MEMBER LEVINE CAVA: So based on the ability to negotiate through that State contract, it would be approved by this Board. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: You guys are good with that? MR. MARTINEZ: If I may, sir? CHAIRMAN DIAZ: Sure. MR. MARTINEZ: The first thing that I want to look at is if we can do sole source through the State. If we have that ability. If we find that we can do that, we're going to go that route. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: Yes. MR. MARTINEZ: If we don't, then we're going to look to other counties and try to attach that. MR. SOLIS: To our competitive bidding process. MR. MARTINEZ: Yes. That would be our second.

47 0 0 Then the third, if that was to fall through, is to open that up -- to do as minimum a period as we're allowed to -- MR. SOLIS: To do a bid instead of an RFP. MR. MARTINEZ: Yes. To do a bid would be the final, if everything else fails. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: And that's accepted, as they didn't ask. One more thing we have to -- and I know Mr. Millares will come back on me with this one real fast, because he's going to say this moving forward. The number that you already received as part of the due diligence of the procurement method that you used before when you stated the number of what is cost. MR. GUTIERREZ: Yes. That number is subject to negotiations, naturally. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: But from there we can negotiate to a lower number? MR. GUTIERREZ: Yes. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: Is what you're saying?

48 0 0 MR. GUTIERREZ: Yes. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: Because we would like to add that in. MR. SOLIS: Commissioner, if I may. In one of the prior Board meetings, this Board created a committee to review procurement process, and to come back to the Board with a recommendation. If the Board wishes and authorizes the Clerk to proceed with the three options that were discussed, that committee would then review whatever process is made, whether it's sole source, et cetera, and come back for the Board's approval. Once the Board approves it, then the Board can authorize the Committee to negotiate on behalf of the Value Adjust Board. Once that committee has come back with a recommendation in terms of negotiations, then we'll come back to the Board again for final ratification. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: So you want to add a two-step process to it? MR. SOLIS: Well, right now -- CHAIRMAN DIAZ: Because we were ready

49 0 0 to give you the authority to move forward and go ahead with moneys that were stated before, and just bring it lower and go for it. MR. SOLIS: But that committee still needs -- but you still need to authorize the final amount and the scope of work. And that could only come out of the negotiations. So if you authorize the Clerk to proceed with one of the three options, depending on which one is available, then if it's the Board's will, then that can then be given to the Committee to review, and then come back with a recommendation with costs, and time, and scope. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: I can accept that. I think that's the proper procedure. Then all we have then is the acceptance of the procurement with the amounts stated in the next meeting. Is that the proper method? MR. SOLIS: Yes, if it's acceptable to the Board. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: Okay.

50 0 0 0 MR. ALFARO: I'll try to schedule a Board meeting on May st so maybe we'll have that information at that meeting. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: I think that you'll have more than enough time to do it that way, because this is not a different process. This is a couple of days. BOARD MEMBER PEREZ: Mr. Chair, point of order. I'm not sure, but to the agenda, should we not had the minutes also to make sure that we get minutes of the previous meeting added to the agenda? Don't we have to approve minutes? MR. ALFARO: Once I get the minutes from the reporting agency, we post those on our website. They're available. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: I just think that in most committees you have -- the first thing that you do is you approve the minutes of the previous meeting. We work a little different, Doctor, than most committees. BOARD MEMBER PEREZ: Yes. That's why I wanted the transcript. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: That's what she's

51 0 0 trying to understand. MR. ALFARO: I absolutely understand as well. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: Believe me, it took me a curve to understand everything as well. BOARD MEMBER PEREZ: I think it would be very helpful so that, if we could add it -- I don't know if there's a prohibition, but if we could add it so that since we don't meet like every week or so, so that, you know, we could -- CHAIRMAN DIAZ: We could refresh what happened in the meeting prior. BOARD MEMBER PEREZ: Yes. What happened at the meetings. Like, for example, he just mentioned that there was a standing -- a, you know, a subcommittee, and those kinds of things, I think, should be reflected. MR. ALFARO: I can send you -- once I get the minutes from the court reporter I can forward that the same day. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: What she's trying to say is she wants to put is as part of the

52 0 0 process on the agenda. BOARD MEMBER PEREZ: What I'm trying to say is I want just very little, just what was approved, what wasn't approved, not necessarily a transcript. I think, you know, if you can just give us basically a small summary of what happened -- CHAIRMAN DIAZ: I don't see that as a problem, Doctor. Unless you guys see it as an issue, or is it because it doesn't go within our process? Explain that, please. Because I've never seen one. I never see one unless I look online. MR. ALFARO: Yes. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: And I have somebody else doing that. MR. MARTINEZ: We can discuss that when we get back. MR. MILLARES: Yes. We simply run these meetings per literally a check list that the Department of Revenue gives us. Meeting minute approval is not on it, but I don't think it's a horrible thing to produce a summary.

53 0 0 CHAIRMAN DIAZ: I think it's important to her and to the system that she feels that it might help her. MR. MILLARES: Sure. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: And if that's the case, if one of the member feels it's important for her, I don't see it as a problem if you give a summary. And that's what she wants is a refresher, a summary. She doesn't need the whole -- MR. MILLARES: Not a full transcription of the meeting. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: No, no. Just a summary. We did this, this and that. BOARD MEMBER PEREZ: In some organizations all you need is what action was approved. That's sufficient. But just something that memorializes what we've been doing I think would be important. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: So with that, let's first make a motion to accept that. Do you want to make a motion? BOARD MEMBER PEREZ: Yes. I move that the when we get subsequent agendas

54 0 0 that there be an item about minutes and maybe approval of minutes. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: Just a summary. BOARD MEMBER PEREZ: We have plenty to read, but just to refresh our minds. BOARD MEMBER LEVINE CAVA: Second. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: All in favor, say aye. THE BOARD MEMBERS COLLECTIVELY: Aye. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: None opposed. So with that said and done, then I need a motion as stated prior, to move forward and do the delineation process. Whether it's one of the two processes that we pick -- actually it's three. But then we bring it back by May st. Is everybody good for May st? Please, before we -- BOARD MEMBER LEVINE CAVA: At two o'clock? MR. ALFARO: No, I think I have it in the morning as Commissioner Diaz suggested. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: Any time I could get it early in the morning and get it out of

55 0 0 the way, it helps me for my regular job best, and for probably everybody else around this table. MR. MILLARES: Just to make sure on that number. Those numbers, I think, notoriously change. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: That's what the negotiation is about. MR. MILLARES: Right. So I don't want anybody to leave this meeting with a number in mind. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: No, no. That's what we're approving. That's what's coming back to us. MR. MILLARES: Fair enough. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: Mr. Millares, we get it. We understand. We want to make sure that that negotiation is had. I know I have very good people that are part of that committee. And I think you're a part of that committee, (indicating), and you are (indicating), and so, obviously, you attach yourself to that too, Mr. Millares. And let's make sure that negotiation takes place, and it's brought back.

56 0 0 Two things I want you to really look at during these negotiations: One, where we always get messed up is on the key and what it means, and the serving on these kinds of contracts. When you have intellectual rights, and this is pretty much a given that this is only one company that we're going to be tied in with for a while. So what does it mean in costs every -- MR. GUTIERREZ: Every year. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: -- every year? And where's the service, and what they provide as a service year. Because you said tweaking was approximately -- MR. GUTIERREZ: That's going to be part of the initial cost. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: In the beginning. MR. GUTIERREZ: That's not an ongoing cost. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: The reason I did this is because I went through several of these methods when we were developing the airport and our drainage systems and stuff. In a couple of them we got really

57 0 0 messed up, because of the ongoing relationship. And we were tied in for a long period of time. We had to sit down, and really, they were nice enough to renegotiate, because of our volume, but they do have kept it to what it was, because we couldn't go anywhere anyways. So please, when you do these negotiations, make sure the -- I call it the key, which is every year, the update, that they do that, and they charge you according. The maintenance involved with the system, that should be a given within the negotiation. Also the time span. Since systems change, companies change, other people coming into the market in today's new age, we want to make sure that we don't address that for a long period of time. So try to see where you could -- anybody else want to add any part to that? BOARD MEMBER DUARTE-VIERA: My concern is just the issue of capacity. So we're doubling our capacity. So make sure

58 0 0 that the system has the ability to handle, you know whatever volume we have now, or potentially might have in the future. So that's a concern. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: Okay. MR. SOLIS: If I may. Assuming that the technology, the front end is based on today's standards for technology, the volume is usually more a function of the back end level, the servers, the network. We have -- the County has a robust network. So transactions, that's not an issue. And then the server capacity is typically another thing that is looked at when you're looking at volume. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: So it's not cloud based? MR. SOLIS: We don't know. We don't know yet. If it's cloud based, then yes, they have to guarantee or assure that they have the capacity to handle "X". CHAIRMAN DIAZ: And security, by the way. MR. SOLIS: Yes.

59 0 0 CHAIRMAN DIAZ: That was a big goal before. MR. GUTIERREZ: Yes, it was cloud based. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: That was our huge goal. That's right it was cloud based, and because of security, we were a little nervious. That's why I said search the world for whatever we dealt with, because these are people's -- even though a lot of it is online already for public information, which I remember you explained. MR. SOLIS: Yes. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: But there were certain particular things that we wanted to make sure were secured. MR. SOLIS: Yes. And we have -- I mean I think we have a good solid team. ITD sits at the table. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: Okay. MR. SOLIS: We have experience. Me, personally, I have a technical background. So I can short of wear two hats and assist the clerk as much as

60 0 0 0 needed. But we're used to dealing with large robust systems where I think the vendor is now understanding that we're not, you know, Lake County or Pasco or you know, one of those small counties that might only have a hundred cases in a year. Assuming that all that is correct, our assumptions are correct, then we could negotiate with them the infrastructure. At the end of the day the infrastructure is a cost that we absorb. It's not really an issue for the VAB. The vendor will tell us, okay, fine, you want to put 0 servers instead of two, then that's your cost. They're not going to fight us on that. The security, how the data is presented, their ability to present it to the magistrates to produce reports, those are things that the clerk is concerned about in terms of functionality. CHAIRMAN DIAZ: Sure. MR. SOLIS: Which is somewhat independent of the hardware side of this.